#73 Peter Byrom: Dawkins' argument from complexity
Oct 10, 2023
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Peter Byrom explores Dawkins' argument from complexity, including his exchange with Francis Collins. The podcast also discusses the complexity of God's design, analyzes Dawkins' circular reasoning, and explores Dawkins' attitude and openness. It concludes by discussing the shift in focus from existential questions to identity and political issues.
38:38
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Quick takeaways
Dawkins' argument from complexity is criticized for its weakness and reliance on circular assumptions rooted in materialism.
Dawkins confuses complexity of structure with complexity of function, failing to justify why a powerful God would need to be complex and improbable.
Deep dives
Dawkins' Use of Complexity Argument
Dawkins heavily relies on an argument from complexity in his debates and public appearances. However, this argument has been criticized for its weakness. Despite the criticism, Dawkins continues to use this line of reasoning, even after refusing to debate William Lane Craig in 2011, which drew negative attention from both atheists and philosophers. Dawkins tends to conflate complexity of structure and complexity of function, assuming that a powerful God must necessarily have a complex structure. He often fails to justify why God would need to be complex and improbable. His argument seems to be based on the circular assumption that materialism is true and that there is no supernatural explanation for the universe.
Dawkins' Response to Complexity of Function
In a dialogue with the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, Dawkins was challenged on his argument about God's complexity. Anthony Kenny, the agnostic philosopher chairing the dialogue, pointed out the distinction between complexity of structure and complexity of function. He presented an analogy using a cutthroat razor and an electric razor to highlight how a simpler structure can still have more complex powers. Dawkins reacted with incredulity and struggled to provide a substantive response. This demonstration further revealed Dawkins' confusion between complexity of function and complexity of structure.
Dawkins' Views on God's Simplicity
Dawkins seems fixated on the idea that God must have a complex structure in order to perform powerful actions like designing the laws of physics and answering prayers. He fails to consider the alternative notion that God could be simple, yet possess incredible capabilities. Francis Collins, a Christian scientist, challenged Dawkins on this view and described God as a mind with immense power and capabilities beyond human comprehension. Dawkins appeared open to the idea of a mind-like God but may still be unable to separate thoughts from the structure of a mind. Dawkins' arguments against God's simplicity seem to be rooted in his materialistic assumptions, limiting his perspective on the nature of God.
The Future of Atheistic Discussions
The era of the new atheism, represented by Dawkins and other prominent figures, appears to be fading. However, a clear direction for a new form of atheistic movement, or the so-called "new new atheism," is yet to emerge. The focus seems to have shifted from direct debates about God's existence to more pragmatic and identity-centric discussions. Jordan Peterson's approach to addressing personal challenges and political issues resonates with individuals overwhelmed by the complexities of modern life. While atheism is assumed more than argued for in current discourse, there remains an opportunity for nuanced conversations and a reconsideration of atheistic assumptions as people search for meaning and solutions beyond the immediate concerns of the present.
In the final part of their discussion, Peter Byrom delves into Dawkins' argument from complexity, suggesting it may be a circular assumption. They unpack Dawkins' fascinating exchange with Francis Collins in 2022, where Dawkins admits he may have a presupposition towards materialism. Plus, what does the future hold?
For more on some of these arguments, see Unbelievable? Is there a new New Atheism? https://www.premierunbelievable.com/unbelievable/unbelievable-coming-to-faith-through-dawkins-part-2-is-there-a-new-new-atheism-alister-mcgrath-and-alex-oconnor/16306.article
For Coming to Faith Through Dawkins: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Coming-Faith-Through-Dawkins-Christianity/dp/0825448220
• William Lane Craig's response to The God Delusion, Oxford 2011: https://youtu.be/fP9CwDTRoOE?si=0QORpANPSZob4e-m
• "The Case for Christian Theism" documentary about William Lane Craig's 2011 UK Tour:
https://youtu.be/vCa9WQBrARc?si=qHNW7PuV_9p7Nmiq
• Dawkins, Kenny, and Williams dialogue, 2012:
https://youtu.be/bow4nnh1Wv0?si=e4GWeSWXEtsnDR1P
• Dawkins and Collins Big Conversation, 2022:
https://youtu.be/SQ3EU58AzFs?si=jgDeI6IR-ybJfVHx
• Dawkins and Swinburne in The Mystery of Existence discussion, 2023:
https://youtu.be/-IAFxIrcWoU?si=JqEnmVmXDZjODcIS
• Dawkins and Boghossian discussion, 2023: https://youtu.be/3MfBLPuwwdo?si=evRSNui7bf3O_SwW
• Nate Sala's commentary on Dawkins and Boghossian discussion, 2023: https://youtu.be/mv9BaEAwW1k?si=L7b6ZoBsM1w5yxwc
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