#59 Meet the Neuroscientist Proving that Consciousness is Physical!

Sep 25, 2025

In this enlightening discussion, David Papineau, a philosopher of mind from King’s College London, challenges traditional notions of consciousness. He argues that consciousness is not a mystical entity but a product of brain processes. Papineau critiques the hard problem of consciousness as a conceptual trap and discusses its implications for ethics and AI. He explores the consciousness of various life forms and whether AI could ever truly care. Expect a provocative debate that reshapes our understanding of what it means to be conscious.

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INSIGHT

Causal Closure Makes Consciousness Physical

David Papineau argues the causal closure of the physical implies mental events are identical to brain processes.
If mental events causally affect the physical, they must just be physical events described differently.

INSIGHT

'Give Rise To' Is A Dualist Trap

Papineau rejects the 'brain gives rise to consciousness' phrasing as dualist rhetoric.
He says consciousness just is certain brain processes, like water just is H2O.

INSIGHT

Mary Gains Concepts, Not Nonphysical Facts

The Mary thought experiment shows learning-by-experience but doesn't prove nonphysical facts.
Papineau says Mary gains a new concept (a way to imagine) but not a new nonphysical feature.

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David Papineau is a philosopher of mind at King’s College London and author of Thinking About Consciousness and The Metaphysics of Sensory Experience, a leading voice who has shaped today’s mind–brain debate from the academy to the airwaves.He argues that consciousness isn’t something mystical added to the brain—it’s what the brain is doing—and that the “hard problem” is a conceptual trap that sneaks in dualism. In this episode, we put materialism on trial, stress-test it with neuroscience, and ask what it means for meaning, morality, animals, and AI.Expect to learn the strongest arguments for why consciousness is not fundamental, how causal closure and mental causation actually work, why the hard problem may be a mirage, what Mary really learns when she sees red, how zombies mislead us, what aphantasia and inner speech reveal about the diversity of inner experience, where the boundary of consciousness might lie across animals, plants, bacteria—and even organs, whether AI could ever “care” and what architecture it would need, how perception might be qualitative beyond representation, what split-brain, blindsight, anesthesia and psychedelics teach us about the self, what evidence would falsify materialism, how to reconcile meaning and ethics without magic, and much more…Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:03:30 The Causal Closure Argument for Materialism00:06:29 Challenging the Channeling Metaphor of Consciousness00:09:16 Exploring the Hard Problem of Consciousness00:12:20 Arguments for Consciousness Being Fundamental00:15:18 The Knowledge Argument and Mary’s Experience00:17:50 Introspection and the Nature of Consciousness00:20:46 The Sociological Context of Consciousness Research00:23:31 Defining Consciousness: The Need for Clarity00:46:24 Exploring Theories of Consciousness00:47:42 Methodological Approaches to Consciousness Research00:50:27 Defining Consciousness: The Importance of Clarity00:55:16 Empirical Research on Consciousness00:59:50 Challenges in Consciousness Research01:02:11 Consciousness Across Different Organisms01:06:22 Consciousness vs. Intelligence: A Comparative Analysis01:10:44 The Nature of Consciousness: A Spectrum or a Cutoff?01:14:44 Integrating Experience: Consciousness in Bacteria and Beyond01:19:37 Phenomenal Consciousness: A Vague Concept?01:22:57 Heuristic Responses vs. Conscious Subjectivity01:28:35 Illusionism vs. Materialism in Consciousness01:34:31 AI and Consciousness: The Future of Machines01:49:53 Moral Considerations in AI and Animal Welfare...Buy David's Books (They're Great!)Thinking about Consciousness: https://amzn.to/4mw9ujZPhilosophical Devices: Proofs, Probabilities, Possibilities, and Sets: https://amzn.to/4mr3o44The Metaphysics of Sensory Experience: https://amzn.to/3KcsjLu...Supports the Channel Through these Links!Sentia Spirits: https://sentiaspirits.com/mcgloughlin4209355084Manta Sleep Mask: Get the Comfiest Sleep Mask on the Planet (Use Code GIANTSMANTA10 https://bit.ly/4ilzfBL )Brain.FM: Music Entrainment for Focused Deep Work (30 Day Free Trial: https://www.brain.fm/giantsshoulder)Consensus.AI: https://get.consensus.app/we00d2cmjpqeFollow My Neuroscience Podcast - The Giants Shoulder Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/5m3Gta5MtIYdk59pb2GJ7M?si=b33232eae67b4126Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/brief-enquiry-to-the-brain/id1752486249