Dave Boyce started to talk to me about meatloaf. The logical follow-up to this topic is of course that he is a board member at Forrester. And a great human to be and spend time with. He advocated for PLG through Winning by Design, an amazing gig that gets the numbers right about PLG. Their visualizations are legendary and the reason for this is the people behind them, David is one of them.

0:00 Dave and Leah introductions

05:30 What do people get wrong about Dave Boyce

08:40 How Dave sees his growth mindset and puts his ego where it belongs.

09:45 Why we should not hold back from sharing our learnings

16:15 Dave’s beautiful story of realizing that we’re all just humans during his entire career

20:35 Leah’s framework about leaders and why it’s impossible to have it together all the time

23:00 Dave’s definition of leadership. Bringing people somewhere they can’t see yet

26:00 When letting people go becomes difficult, and how some decisions are impossible to get right.

28:50 The connection to middle management. Do not resent people for making mistakes under you.

30:40 Winning by Design and its mission to push into unexplored territory connected to PLG

35:15 Why the math of Sales-Led doesn’t work when PLG could work.

36:30 Leah’s take on PLG

43:00 How sales can be a miserable experience

47:15 It’s not about pretense anymore, it’s about bringing the best we have to offer to our fellow humans

48:30 How Hubspot brought PLG to Leah

56:00 How to bring Product-led Sales into a Sales-led organization

59:15 The trend about bringing Product to Sales

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108: Cold Leads/The Patience Podcast