In Search of Wild Gods. Reflections on Nick Cave and Tom Holland in conversation about Christianity
Jan 11, 2025
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Nick Cave, the celebrated musician known for his profound explorations of faith and grief, joins historian Tom Holland, acclaimed for his insights on Christian values in modern society. They dive into why both artists are drawn back to Christianity, highlighting Cave's imaginative view of God and Holland's fascination with the weird and wonderful. Their conversation raises questions about the resurgence of interest in Christianity, emphasizing a faith that inspires imagination and opens the mind to the unknown, rather than mere numbers.
Nick Cave's return to church stems from profound grief, highlighting the importance of unguarded emotional expressions in spiritual settings.
Tom Holland emphasizes the mystical complexities of Christianity, advocating for a transformative understanding that transcends conventional frameworks of belief.
Deep dives
Nick Cave's Return to Sacred Spaces
Nick Cave recounts how the profound grief from losing his son led him back to church, emphasizing the beauty of unguarded emotional expressions in spiritual spaces. During a prayer session in a chapel, he witnessed his wife's raw vulnerability, which catalyzed his reconnection with faith. He appreciates the simplicity of church practices that allow his imagination to flourish without the intrusion of modern musical trends or overly structured rituals. This return to a sacred atmosphere has provided him with solace and a sense of humility, revealing an appealing abstraction of faith that transcends personal expectations or needs.
Tom Holland on the Mystical Dimension of Christianity
Tom Holland expresses his fascination with the mysticism inherent in Christianity, advocating for a deeper exploration beyond conventional frameworks of belief. He compares the Bible to a vast, multi-roomed house, suggesting that within its complexities lies a potential for transformative understanding and enrichment. Holland highlights the significance of historical perspective, explaining that dismissing the supernatural aspects of history limits our comprehension of humanity's evolution. His anecdotes of profound experiences in moments of fear or uncertainty illustrate a growing awareness of the transcendent possibilities within the Christian narrative beyond rational confines.
The Evolving Discourse on Meaning and Belief
Both speakers agree that while today's cultural landscape is marked by rising cynicism and a crisis of meaning, there remains a noteworthy interest in discussing spiritual matters. They emphasize that the current era does not automatically translate to a resurgence of Christianity; rather, it may foster a complex interplay of skepticism and curiosity. Cave articulates concerns that indifference has shifted towards a more pronounced sense of meaning, which could lead to darker outcomes without proper guidance. The conversation reflects a longing for deeper engagement with spirituality that ventures beyond superficial belief systems, inviting a richer exploration of life's mysteries.
Nick Cave and Tom Holland discussed Christianity in an event organised by Unherd entitled In Search of Wild Gods on Thursday 9th January 2025. Chaired by Freddie Sayers, the conversation revolved around whether and why there is renewed interest in Christianity.
Tom Holland’s book Dominion has become a staple of learned comment, with its thesis that pretty much all the values that shape our society are Christian values. Nick Cave is currently on a global tour with tremendous, joyous, hard won songs conveying a distinctly revival feel. But are we in a culturally significant moment?
The answers they gave are much worth considering. What do they find in church? What do they not want to find? What is about the weird and wonderful that so appeals to Tom Holland? What is about the mystical and inexpressible that attracts Nick Cave?
The discussion brought little comfort for Christians who seek success by numbers or ecclesiastics hoping a panic about cultural Christianity will save the church. Rather, both Cave and Holland point to a kind of Christianity that opens onto the unknown, inspires the imagination, and enlarges the capacities of the human soul.
0:00 Why Nick Cave went back to church 6:15 How Nick Cave imagines God 9:30 Tom Holland's love of the weird 14:23 Holland's thesis about Christian values 17:10 Is there a Christian revival underway? 23:28 Christianity at its most compelling 28:13 Music as akin to religious experience
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