Join Dave Pacheco, a Steno developer, Eliza Weisman, who helps run the control plane, and Andrew, as they dive into the fascinating world of Distributed Sagas. They discuss the challenges of coordinating complex operations in microservices and share their innovative solutions for maintaining data integrity. The trio highlights the differences between sagas and traditional workflows, tackling issues like automated testing and state management. Tune in for insights on collaborative development and the evolution of their ambitious project!
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Quick takeaways
The podcast details the evolution and implementation of Distributed Sagas within Oxide's control plane, reflecting on its significance in managing complex workflows.
The discussion highlights the importance of balancing technical complexity with ease of maintenance when designing control planes for distributed systems.
Anecdotes about naming conventions, like the name 'Omicron,' are shared, illustrating the unexpected implications and humor in the tech landscape.
Concurrency issues and the necessity for robust testing frameworks are emphasized as essential elements in managing race conditions and ensuring system reliability.
Deep dives
Long-awaited Episode on Sagas
The episode discusses a long-overdue topic related to distributed sagas, highlighting the journey from earlier conceptual discussions to the eventual implementation of sagas in practice. The speakers reflect on their initial enthusiasm and anticipation regarding this subject, indicating it has been on the agenda for quite some time. They joke about whether they had previously covered this topic, suggesting that its significance has persisted throughout their discussions. This buildup adds to the excitement as they finally delve into the details of sagas and their applications within their system.
Challenges in System Design
A significant focus of the episode is the challenges associated with designing a control plane that effectively utilizes sagas, especially in distributed systems. The speakers discuss the importance of finding solutions that balance the technical complexities while ensuring straightforward implementation and maintenance. They reference experiences from the early days of the company's formation when they had an opportunity to start with a clean slate, which was both a privilege and a daunting challenge. As they share instances of trial and error in navigating this landscape, it underscores the iterative nature of developing such systems.
Innovative Use of the Term 'Omicron'
The podcast outlines an interesting anecdote involving the naming of their repo 'Omicron', initially inspired by a Futurama reference. Despite the subsequent association with the COVID-19 variant, the team takes pride in their early choice, stressing that their naming decision predates the pandemic. They discuss the implications of having to navigate these vernacular complexities in the technology landscape while retaining a sense of humor about it. This anecdote illustrates how labeling in tech can lead to unintended consequences and associations.
Exploration of Distributed Sagas
The speakers elaborate on the complexities of distributed sagas, explaining their function and detailing the nuances that accompany their implementation. They touch on the notion of compensating actions, which are critical in ensuring that if a saga fails, the state can be reverted safely without causing inconsistencies within the system. This discussion emphasizes the necessity of thoughtful design in managing state across distributed actions, especially given the potential for race conditions and other complications. Their experiences reinforce the idea that careful planning and testing are essential in creating robust saga implementations.
Consequences of Concurrency Issues
A significant theme in the podcast is the fallout from concurrency issues that arise when multiple sagas are triggered simultaneously. The speakers recap several complex scenarios, including issues faced when actions do not complete as expected due to unforeseen race conditions. They discuss how these complications can lead to states where resources are improperly allocated or instance statuses become ambiguous. By sharing tangible examples of how their control plane has grappled with these issues, they highlight the necessity of building strong frameworks to handle concurrency effectively.
Emphasizing Documentation and Testing
The hosts stress the importance of thorough documentation and robust testing frameworks in the development of saga functionality. They mention how having a well-defined process, like TLA+ modeling, can help identify potential race conditions before they manifest in production. Additionally, they recognize the value of manual testing as a vital complement to automated processes, ensuring that edge cases are handled appropriately. This combination of techniques underscores a systematic approach to quality assurance, enhancing the effectiveness of their system in real-world scenarios.
Transition Towards Reliable Persistent Workflows
The podcast hints at a transitional phase in their system from simple sagas to more complex Reliable Persistent Workflows (RPWs). As the discussion evolves, the speakers illustrate how the complexity of certain operations necessitates a reevaluation of their initial choices in workflow management. RPWs emerge as a fitting solution, allowing for smoother state management across distributed systems. They emphasize that while sagas have their place, sometimes a reconciler-based approach is more appropriate to handle dynamic interactions in complex environments.
The Oxide control plane coordinates multiple services to do complex, compound operations. Early on, we knew we wanted to provide a robust structure for these multi-part workflows. We stumbled onto Distributed Sagas and built our own implementation in Steno. Bryan and Adam are joined by several members of the Oxide team who built and use Steno to drive the complex operation of the control plane.
chat: "when i hear sagas i think "transaction semantics enforced at the application layer" and when i hear workflow i hear "a dsl that doesn't have a for loop""
If we got something wrong or missed something, please file a PR! Our next show will likely be on Monday at 5p Pacific Time on our Discord server; stay tuned to our Mastodon feeds for details, or subscribe to this calendar. We'd love to have you join us, as we always love to hear from new speakers!
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