
Buddha at the Gas Pump 427. Panel Discussion: “Sudden or Gradual: Two Paths to Realization?”
Nov 22, 2017
01:57:36
Recorded at the Science and Nonduality Conference.
There is a perennial debate in spiritual traditions regarding whether realization is direct (sudden) or progressive (gradual). But is this a false distinction? Realization is often sudden, no matter how many years of practice may have led up to it, and even after realization, most people find that refinement, clarification, and the working out of personal shortcomings continue indefinitely.
Who wouldn’t prefer direct realization to years of purification and practice? But how many examples of purely direct realization can we find? Can a path be both direct and progressive? Is it possible to have a taste of our true nature from the outset, and then spend a lifetime clarifying and embodying it? Also, is there one watershed breakthrough which can be universally agreed upon as final “Realization”, or are there many degrees and stages of realization, each of them important stepping stones in a never-ending journey?
Proponents of the direct path sometimes argue that if we regard spiritual development as progressive, we will forever be anticipating, never arriving. But some spiritual seekers, not appreciating the distinction between understanding and experience, mistake intellectual understanding with enlightenment, and consider themselves “finished” when they are just getting started.
Isa Gucciardi, Ph.D. is the Founding Director of the Foundation of the Sacred Stream, a school for consciousness studies in Berkeley, CA. Isa is also the creator of the spiritual counseling model, Depth Hypnosis, and author of two books, Coming to Peace and Return to the Great Mother. In addition to her teaching schedule that includes teaching classes in Applied Buddhist Psychology, Applied Shamanism, Integrated Energy Medicine and Depth Hypnosis, she has active practices in Depth Hypnosis and Applied Shamanic Counseling in San Francisco, CA. For more information, please see sacredstream.org.
Batgap interview with Isa and Robert Thurman.
David F. Buckland has a graduate degree in Vedic Science and researches and writes on subjects related to the approach, shift, integration, and embodiment of the stages of enlightenment. This reflects a 40 year unfolding that has been prominent for much of his life. But with a more recent series of profound shifts, the exploration became the life itself. Under the pen name Davidya, he brings ancient teachings into modern life. After many years of research, he published the book Our Natural Potential: Beyond Personal Development, The Stages of Enlightenment in 2017.
Previous Batgap discussions with David:
Individual interview
Panel Discussion at Sofia University, Part 1
Panel Discussion at Sofia University, Part 2
Michael Rodriguez - Drawing always from his direct experience, Michael speaks with great clarity and compassion about the undivided nature of Life or Consciousness, pointing to reality in a way that is free from dogma, ritual, or adherence to any particular tradition. He also draws skillfully from the world's wisdom traditions and integrates Jungian psychology, literature, music, and art into his work to address the full range of human potential. He offers meetings, retreats, and private sessions here in the United States and abroad.
Book--Boundless Awareness: A Loving Path to Spiritual Awakening and Freedom from Suffering
Previous Batgap discussion with Michael
Discussion of this video in the Batgap Community Facebook Group.
Summary and Transcript of this interview
Recorded October 22, 2017
YouTube Video Chapters:
00:00:00 - Sudden or Gradual? Two Paths to Realisation
00:04:33 - Understanding the Direct Path
00:09:16 - The Both/And Path of Integration
00:14:10 - The Experience of Self on a Soul Level and Relative Level
00:19:16 - Holding Dual Perspectives in the Awakening Process
00:23:46 - The Continuous Process of Unfolding
00:28:04 - The Momentum of the Old Way
00:32:08 - Dissolution of the Self and Healing
00:36:02 - Genuine Insight vs Mechanical Statements
00:40:36 - The Importance of Healing and Clarity
00:45:00 - Embracing Residual Traumas and Awakening
00:50:25 - Accessing the Core Wound
00:54:27 - The Illusion of Separation
00:58:07 - Resolving the Core Wound of Separation
01:03:00 - Audience Questions
01:05:12 - The Challenge of Embracing the Concept of "No Self"
01:09:37 - The Inability to Grasp the Concept of No Self
01:13:53 - Exploring Different Perspectives
01:17:09 - Clearing Thought Processes and Genuine Expression
01:21:36 - When the Spiritual Path is of No Use
01:26:00 - The Importance of Resonance and Finding the Right Teacher
01:28:44 - The Unified Field of Attaining Enlightenment
01:32:58 - The Beauty of Non-Progression
01:36:49 - An Integration Process of Years
01:41:32 - Sharing Perspectives on Vedic and Buddhist Thought
01:45:31 - The Consciousness of Black Oaks
01:49:30 - A Path of Gradual and Sudden Shifts
01:53:18 - Maintaining the Lightness
01:57:03 - The Journey of Self-Realization and Shifting Realities
02:01:18 - Connecting with the Felt Experience
