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Kim Stanley Robinson on Real Utopian Futures

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Jan 4, 2026

Guest

Kim Stanley Robinson

Kim Stanley Robinson, an award-winning sci-fi author, delves into thought-provoking ideas about our future. He critiques 'preemptive capitulation' and argues that the future is still contestable. Robinson discusses concepts like 'futurecide' and the importance of human agency amidst demographic shifts and inequality. He advocates for eco-socialism, emphasizing practical conservation goals. He explores the impact of science fiction on contemporary realities and suggests that narratives of solidarity can inspire action for a better tomorrow.

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INSIGHT

Future Is Not Dead

Kim Stanley Robinson rejects 'preemptive capitulation' and insists the future cannot be killed.
He argues the fight for a better future is ongoing and requires human agency to bend history toward justice.

insights

INSIGHT

Rejecting Romanticized Dystopia

Robinson criticizes climate dystopias as misleading and often romantically survivable.
He calls for a counter-aesthetic of realistic utopia that shows believable, positive directions for history.

insights

INSIGHT

Science Fiction Mirrors The Present

Robinson calls science fiction 'the realism of our time' because the present now resembles old SF futures.
He urges updating SF to accurately extrapolate current technologies and avoid 1950s tropes.

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Is the Future Closed or Open?

02:15 • 2min

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On 'Futurecide' and Momentum

03:48 • 2min

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Demographics, Inequality, and Possibility

05:45 • 3min

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The Arc of History Needs Agency

08:32 • 2min

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Identifying as an American Leftist

10:21 • 1min

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Dystopia vs. Real Climate Aesthetics

11:30 • 2min

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Why Dystopias Mislead

13:46 • 3min

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Utopian Fiction as a Counter-Aesthetic

16:31 • 3min

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Science Fiction as Our Realism

19:06 • 2min

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AI, Turing Test, and the Uncanny Present

20:50 • 4min

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Connecting Alternatives to Everyday Life

24:39 • 2min

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Finance, State, and the Role of Taxation

26:14 • 5min

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Green Keynesianism as Practical First Step

30:54 • 5min

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Carbon Coin and Finance-as-Planning

36:19 • 3min

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Nationalize, Redirect, and Scale Green Investment

39:02 • 7min

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Limits of Green Capitalism and Need for Politics

45:40 • 3min

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Both/And: Green Capitalism Toward Eco-Socialism

48:38 • 8min

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Stories That Mobilize: Mutual Aid and the Biosphere

• Mentioned in 6 episodes

New York 2140

Kim Stanley Robinson

Manuel Mata

New York 2140 is set in a future New York City that has been drastically altered by climate change. The city has experienced a significant rise in sea levels, flooding much of Manhattan and transforming it into a 'Super Venice. ' The novel follows the lives of multiple characters living in the MetLife Tower, which has been adapted to withstand the flooding. It delves into themes of economic and social change, critiquing capitalism and unregulated financial systems while highlighting the resilience and adaptability of the city's inhabitants. The story involves various plotlines, including a search for missing residents, attempts to reform the global financial system, and the struggle for housing and resources in a post-climate catastrophe world.

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• Mentioned in 3 episodes

Orwell's Roses

Rebecca Solnit

Alexandre Gombau Arnau

In 'Orwell's Roses', Rebecca Solnit provides an insightful literary biography of George Orwell, focusing on his lesser-known love for gardening and nature. The book connects Orwell's political writing with his personal life, highlighting his cultivation of rose bushes at his English countryside cottage. Solnit also explores broader themes such as the labor movement's 'bread and roses' slogan, the symbolism of roses, and the intersection of aesthetics and ethics. The book is a blend of memoir, historical analysis, and literary criticism, offering a fresh and hopeful perspective on Orwell's life and work.

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• Mentioned in 5 episodes

Half-Earth

Edward O. Wilson

In *Half-Earth*, Edward O. Wilson presents a compelling argument for setting aside half of the Earth's surface as natural reserves to combat the accelerating extinction of species. This ambitious plan aims to stabilize biodiversity and ensure the long-term survival of life on Earth. Wilson critiques piecemeal conservation efforts and emphasizes the urgent need for a comprehensive approach to protect ecosystems and species.

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• Mentioned in 2 episodes

The ascendancy of finance

Joseph Vogl

#550

• Mentioned in 49 episodes

Debt

The First 5,000 Years

David Graeber

In this book, David Graeber argues that debt has a much longer history than money and that it has played a central role in shaping human societies. He debunks the myth of barter as the precursor to money, instead proposing that credit systems and debt were the primary means of trade. Graeber examines how debt has been used as a tool for social control, influenced law, religion, and politics, and has led to periodic crises and debtor revolts throughout history. The book also discusses the moral and social implications of debt, suggesting that the concept of debt is more complex than a simple economic transaction.

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The Ministry for the Future

Kim Stanley Robinson

The Ministry for the Future is a novel by Kim Stanley Robinson that delves into the urgent issue of climate change. Set in the near future, the story follows the establishment of a UN agency, the Ministry for the Future, whose mission is to advocate for the rights of future generations. The novel is told through multiple perspectives, including those of Mary Murphy, the head of the Ministry, and Frank May, an American aid worker who survives a devastating heat wave in India. The book explores various innovative solutions to climate change, such as the introduction of a new currency called 'carboni' to incentivize decarbonization, and it presents a hopeful yet realistic vision of how humanity might cooperate to mitigate the effects of climate change. The narrative includes a mix of fictional eyewitness accounts, non-fiction descriptions, and diverse writing styles, reflecting the complexity and urgency of the climate crisis.

#16574

• Mentioned in 3 episodes

Gold Coast

Nelson De Mille

The Gold Coast by Nelson DeMille is a novel that explores the intersection of old wealth and organized crime on Long Island's North Shore. Narrated by John Sutter, a Wall Street lawyer, the story delves into themes of social class, morality, and the decline of America's aristocracy. As Sutter becomes entangled with Frank Bellarosa, a powerful mob boss, the novel unfolds with suspense, humor, and intrigue.

Kim Stanley Robinson discusses Real Utopian Futures.

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Shownotes

The reference page on Kim Stanley Robinson, his works, interviews, talks, etc. (including a discussion forum):

https://www.kimstanleyrobinson.info/

Robinson, K. S. (2020). The Ministry for the Future. Orbit Books.

https://www.orbit-books.co.uk/titles/kim-stanley-robinson/the-ministry-for-the-future/9780356508863/

Robinson, K. S. (2017). New York 2140. Orbit Books.

https://www.orbit-books.co.uk/titles/kim-stanley-robinson/new-york-2140/9780356508788/

Robinson, K. S. (1988). The Gold Coast. Macmillan.

https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780312890377/thegoldcoast/

Blumenfeld, J. (2024). Managing Decline. Cured Quail, Vol. 3.

https://curedquail.com/Managing-Decline

Blumenfeld, J. (2022). Climate Barbarism. Adapting to a wrong World. Constellations, 30, 162–178.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1467-8675.12596

the quoted Kohei Saito video:

https://youtube.com/shorts/WnvhD7p651M?si=SdfPftKOCJM6MS9j

the lecture in which Kim Stanley Robinson talks about “futurecide” and “preemptive capitulation”:

https://youtu.be/HpzXkpx29S4?si=PVlOE53Hj5-BZR5B

reporting on and summary of the talk:

https://www.ioes.ucla.edu/article/the-war-on-science-is-here-kim-stanley-robinson-says-its-just-the-beginning/

Löwy, M. (2005). What is Ecosocialism? Capitalism Nature Socialism, 16(2), 15–24.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10455750500108237

for an overview of the history and different schools of Ecomarxist/Ecosocialist theory:

https://www.historicalmaterialism.org/ecology-marxism-andreas-malm/

on Anna Kornbluh:

http://www.annakornbluh.com/

on Mass Extinction Events:

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/what-is-mass-extinction-and-are-we-facing-a-sixth-one.html

Dressler, A. (2025). You have 100 ‘Energy Slaves’. The Climate Brink.

https://www.theclimatebrink.com/p/you-have-100-energy-slaves

on the 30 by 30 Biodiversity Goal:

https://www.cop28.com/en/thought-leadership/The-30x30-Biodiversity-Goal-at-COP28

the International Maritime Organization:

https://www.imo.org/

on the ‘Half-Earth Project’:

https://eowilsonfoundation.org/what-is-the-half-earth-project/

Wilson, E. O. (2016). Half-Earth. Our Planet’s Fight for Life. Norton Books.

https://wwnorton.com/books/9781631492525

Pendergrass, D. & Vettese, T. (2022). Half-Earth Socialism. A Plan to Save the Future from Extinction, Climate Change and Pandemics. Verso.

https://www.versobooks.com/products/2650-half-earth-socialism

one of the many interviews/talks in which Kim Stanley Robinson talks about science fiction as the realism of our times:

https://youtu.be/p1wNhc46xjE?si=hOdKuwRQhef-9tLs

on the Turing Test:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

on Neoliberalism attaching itself to demands of the New Left:

Boltanski, L. & Chiapello, E. (2018). The New Spirit of Capitalism. Verso.

https://www.versobooks.com/products/1980-the-new-spirit-of-capitalism

on Friedrich Hayek:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek

Williams, R. (2015). Structures of Feeling. In: D. Sharma & F. Tygstrup (Ed.), Structures of Feeling. Affectivity and the Study of Culture (pp. 20-26).

https://www.degruyterbrill.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110365481.20/html

on Keynesianism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

Vogl, J. (2017). The Ascendancy of Finance. Polity Press.

https://www.politybooks.com/bookdetail?book_slug=the-ascendancy-of-finance--9781509509294

Graeber, D. (2011). Debt. The First 5,000 Years. Melville House.

https://files.libcom.org/files/__Debt__The_First_5_000_Years.pdf

on Thomas Piketty:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Piketty

on Gabriel Zucman:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Zucman

on the ‘Zucman tax’: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2025/09/23/zucman-tax-what-the-proposed-wealth-tax-would-mean-for-france_6745653_8.html

on Carbon Taxes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax

Sorg, C. (2023). Finance as a Form of Economic Planning. Competition & Change, 29(1), 17-37.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/10245294231217578

Sarkar, S. (2024). The Carbon Coin. An Eco-Speculative Approach to Decarbonisation in Kim Stanley Robinson’s The Ministry for the Future. Green Letters, 28(4), 297–310.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14688417.2025.2483998

A policy proposal on ‘Carbon Reward’ from the same researcher whose earlier policy work inspired the ‘Carbon Coin’ idea in The Ministry for the Future:

https://deltonchen.substack.com/p/new-economic-blueprint-for-resolving