Jack Daniel, a captivating storyteller and co-founder of Security B-Sides, shares his vibrant journey through the hacker landscape. He discusses the origins and evolution of BSides conferences, emphasizing their community-driven nature compared to larger events. Jack highlights the transformation of the hacker community, the significance of documenting its history, and the power of chosen family in overcoming challenges. His unique insights into modern hacking and memorable conference experiences add a rich texture to this engaging conversation.
Security B-Sides was founded to address the lack of inclusivity and rejection of valuable talks at large tech conferences.
The decentralized model of B-Sides allows local teams to organize events based on their unique community needs, fostering ownership.
B-Sides emphasizes a collaborative hacker culture, encouraging knowledge sharing over competition, and supporting a vibrant community ethos.
Deep dives
The Genesis of Security B-Sides
Security B-Sides originated from dissatisfaction with the commercialization of large tech conferences like Black Hat, particularly after its sale to a global media company. Jack Daniel, a co-founder, and others realized that many valuable talks were being rejected by mainstream events, leaving a gap for those voices within the community. They aimed to create an inclusive platform where emerging talent could present their ideas, receive feedback, and develop their skills in a supportive setting. Thus, B-Sides was conceptualized as a grassroots conference, starting with a small event in Las Vegas designed for informal discussions and networking.
Community-Driven Structure
B-Sides operates on a decentralized model, allowing individual events to be organized by local teams according to their needs while fostering a sense of community ownership. There are no paid speaking slots, ensuring that the focus remains on sharing knowledge instead of commercial interests, thus sticking to its grassroots origins. Each event is typically managed with an open call for papers, allowing participants to contribute content based on their expertise and experiences. This open and community-centric philosophy has enabled B-Sides to grow rapidly, with events held in numerous countries, showcasing a collective effort to foster a vibrant hacker culture.
Evolution of Talks and Presentations
B-Sides has evolved to feature a wide array of talks that cater to varying interests within the community, ranging from technical presentations to discussions on ethics and social issues within cybersecurity. For instance, the inaugural B-Sides event exemplified this with talks covering practical themes like transitioning from a penetration tester to a managerial role and important conversations around gender issues in the hacker community. This variety of content allows for rich and diverse conversations that not only educate but also foster better understanding among professionals from different backgrounds. The emphasis on making these talks accessible and relevant ensures that the community remains engaged and invested in ongoing dialogue.
Impact of Corporate and Bug Bounty Culture
With the rise of corporate bug hunting and commercialization within cybersecurity, a new dynamic has emerged, affecting the community's perception and behavior. While the introduction of bug bounty programs can incentivize hacking for ethical purposes, it has also led to a shift in engagement, with some hackers prioritizing public recognition over community collaboration. This commercialization can create barriers to informal knowledge sharing that were once core to the hacker ethos. To counter this, B-Sides emphasizes maintaining a culture of collaboration and communal support, reinforcing the idea that real progress comes from shared experiences rather than competitive publicity.
The Essence of the Hacker Ethos
At the heart of hacker culture lies a deep sense of curiosity and a desire to understand and experiment with technology in innovative ways. Being a hacker is often defined by one's willingness to question norms, explore the unknown, and continuously learn, regardless of past accomplishments. This mindset fosters a culture of sharing knowledge and supporting peers, which is exemplified at B-Sides events where attendees are encouraged to participate actively rather than passively consume information. The communities that arise from these interactions often create a form of chosen family, where support transcends professional boundaries, emphasizing the human connection that lies at the core of hacking.
Jack Daniel is a storyteller, wanderer, comic, bartender, blacksmith, luthier, historian, mechanic, and the world’s oldest millennial. He is also one of the founders of Security BSides. Jack has a colorful and interesting history, and today we'll learn about how and why he started BSides, delve into a little hacker conference history, talk about modern hackers and cybersecurity conferences and how he's seen them change over the years, and how hackers and their conferences are vastly different than the others.
Interview Notes
Jack Daniel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackadaniel/
BSides official site: https://bsides.org/
BSides Las Vegas (part of hacker summer camp): https://bsideslv.org/
InfoSecMap: https://infosecmap.com/
Cult of the Dead Cow interview: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2023/08/07/cult-of-the-dead-cow/
Jeff Moss interview #1: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2021/08/16/on-a-dark-tangent/
Jeff Moss interview #2: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2022/08/29/the-night-the-lights-went-out-in-vegas/
CackalackyCon: https://cackalackycon.org/
Further Info
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Table of Contents
Use these timestamps to jump to a particular section of the show.
0:01:49: Interview lingo
0:04:05: How did you get into the world of cybersecurity and hacking?
0:12:40: Why did you start BSides?
0:17:43: What were some of the first BSides talks like?
0:21:42: What are the founding principles of BSides?
0:28:00: What approval do you need to start a BSides conference?
0:34:44: How have other hacker conferences influenced BSides and vice versa?
0:36:53: Is there a beef between BSides and Black Hat?
0:38:58: What's your connection with ShmooCon?
0:42:42: How have hackers and these conferences changed since the old days?
0:47:40: Discussion on responsible disclosure
0:50:39: Two different kinds of presenters
0:54:02: You might be a hacker if...
1:01:30: What's the best way to find a local hacker conference?
1:06:50: BSides is about community
1:08:29: Interview wrap-up
1:11:19: Patron content
1:11:53: Looking ahead
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