Trump Versus the United States

First up, Georgetown law professor and former national legal director at the ACLU, David Cole, joins us to discuss the legal response to the Trump Administration’s serial violations of the Constitution. Then Mike Ferner of Veterans for Peace checks in to update us halfway through his Fast for Gaza, 40 days of living on 250 calories per day, which is the average caloric intake of Palestinian survivors in Gaza. Finally, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, Joe Holley, stops by to pay tribute to his mentor and colleague, the late crusading journalist, Ronnie Dugger, founder of the progressive Texas Observer.

David Cole is the Honorable George J. Mitchell Professor in Law and Public Policy and former National Legal Director of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). He writes about and teaches constitutional law, freedom of speech, and constitutional criminal procedure. He is a regular contributor to The New York Review of Books and is the legal affairs correspondent for The Nation.

Trump is obviously not concerned about antisemitism. He's concerned about targeting schools because they are places where people can criticize the president, where people can think independently, are taught to think independently, and often don't support what the president is doing. He's using his excuse to target a central institution of civil society.

David Cole

The decision on Trump versus the United States is only about criminal liability for criminal acts, not for unconstitutional acts. And violating the Constitution is not a crime. Every president has violated the Constitution probably since George Washington. That's not a crime.

David Cole

Mike Ferner served in the Navy during the Vietnam War, and he is former National Director and current Special Projects Coordinator for Veterans for Peace. He is the author of Inside the Red Zone: A Veteran for Peace Reports from Iraq.

Two hundred and fifty calories is technically, officially, a starvation diet, and we're doing it for 40 days. The people in Gaza have been doing it for months and months and months, and they're dying like crazy. That's the whole concern that we're trying to raise. And I'll tell you at the end of this fast, on the 40th day, we are not just going out silently. There are going to be some fireworks before we're done with this thing. So all I'm saying is: stay tuned.

Mike Ferner: Special Projects Coordinator of Veterans for Peace on “FastforGaza”

They're (The Veterans Administration is) being defamed, Ralph, for the same reason that those right-wing corporatists defamed public education. So they can privatize it. And that's exactly what they're trying to do with the VA. And I can tell you every single member of Veterans for Peace has got nothing but praise for the VA.

Mike Ferner

Joe Holley was the editor of the Texas Observer in the early 1980s. A former staff writer at The Washington Post and a Pulitzer Prize-winning editorial writer and columnist at the Houston Chronicle, he is the author of eight books, mostly about Texas.

He would talk to people, and he would find out things going on about racial discrimination, about farm workers being mistreated, all kind of stories that the big papers weren't reporting. And this one guy, young Ronnie Dugger, would write these stories and expose things about Texas that a lot of Texans just did not know.

Joe Holley on the late progressive journalist, Ronnie Dugger

He knew the dark side of Texas, but he always had an upbeat personality. I had numerous conversations with Ronnie (Dugger), and he was ferociously independent.

Ralph Nader

News 6/13/25

1. On Monday, Israeli forces seized the Madleen, the ship carrying activist Greta Thunberg and others attempting to bring food and other supplies past the Israeli blockade into Gaza, and detained the crew. The ship was part of the Freedom Flotilla Coalition and Thunberg had been designated an “Ambassador of Conscience,” by Amnesty International. The group decried her detention, with Secretary General Agnès Callamard writing, “Israel has once again flouted its legal obligations towards civilians in the occupied Gaza Strip and demonstrated its chilling contempt for legally binding orders of the International Court of Justice.” On Tuesday, CBS reported that Israel deported Thunberg. Eight other passengers refused deportation and the Jerusalem Post reports they remain in Israeli custody. They will be represented in Israeli courts by Adalah - The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel. One of these detainees is Rima Hassan, a French member of the European Parliament.

2. Shortly before the Madleen was intercepted, members of Congress sent a letter to Secretary of State Marco Rubio expressing concern for the safety of these activists, citing the deadly 2010 raid of the Mavi Marmara, which ultimately resulted in the death of ten activists, including an American. This letter continued, “any attack on the Madleen or its civilian crew is a clear and blatant violation of international law. United Nations experts have called for the ship’s safe passage and warned Israel to “refrain from any act of hostility” against the Madleen and its passengers…We call on you to monitor the Madleen’s journey and deter any such hostile actions.” This letter was led by Rep. Rashida Tlaib, and drew signatures from Congressional progressives like Reps. Summer Lee, AOC, Ilhan Omar, Greg Casar, and others.

3. On the other end of the political spectrum, Trump – ever unpredictable – seemed to criticize Israel’s detention of Thunberg. In a press conference, “Trump was…asked about Thunberg's claim that she had been kidnapped.” The president responded “I think Israel has enough problems without kidnapping Greta Thunberg…Is that what she said? She was kidnapped by Israel?” The reporter replied “Yes, sir,” to which “Trump responded by shaking his head.” This from Newsweek.

4. Of course, the major Trump news this week is his response to the uprising in Los Angeles. Set off by a new wave of ICE raids, protesters have clashed with police in the streets and Trump has responded by increasingly upping the ante, including threatening to arrest California Governor Gavin Newsom, per KTLA. Beyond such bluster however, Trump has moved to deploy U.S. Marines onto the streets of the nation’s second-largest city. Reuters reports, “About 700 Marines were in a staging area in the Seal Beach area about 30 miles…south of Los Angeles, awaiting deployment to specific locations,” in addition to 2,100 National Guard troops. The deployment of these troops raises thorny legal questions. Per Reuters, “The Marines and National Guard troops lack the authority to makes arrests and will be charged only with protecting federal property and personnel,” but “California Attorney General Rob Bonta… [said] there was a risk that could violate an 1878 law that…forbids the U.S. military, including the National Guard, from taking part in civilian law enforcement.” Yet, despite all the tumult, these protests seem to have gotten the goods, so to speak: the City of Glendale announced it would, “end its agreement with…ICE to house federal immigration detainees.” All of this sets quite a scene going into Trump’s military parade in DC slated for Saturday, June 14th.

5. In classic fashion however, Trump’s tough posture does not extend to corporate crime. Public Citizen’s Rick Claypool reports, “Trump's DOJ just announced American corporations that engage in criminal bribery schemes abroad will no longer be prosecuted.” Claypool cites a June 9th memo from Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, which reads, “Effective today, prosecutors shall…not attribute…malfeasance to corporate structures.” Claypool also cites a Wall Street Journal piece noting that “the DOJ has already ended half of its criminal investigations into corporate bribery in foreign countries and shrunk its [Foreign Corrupt Practices Act] unit down to 25 employees.”

6. Americans can at least take small comfort in one thing: the departure of Elon Musk from the top rungs of government. It remains to be seen what exactly precipitated his final exit and how deep his rift with Trump goes – Musk has already backed down on his harshest criticisms of the president, deleting his tweet claiming Trump was in Epstein files, per ABC. Yet, this appears to be a victory for Steve Bannon and the forces he represents within Trump’s inner circle. On June 5th, the New York Times reported that Bannon, “said he was advising the president to cancel all [Musk’s] contracts and… ‘initiate a formal investigation of his immigration status’.” Bannon added, “[Musk] should be deported from the country immediately.’” Bannon has even called for a special counsel probe, per the Hill. Bannon’s apparent ascendency goes beyond the Oval Office as well. POLITICO Playbook reports Bannon had a 20-minute-long conversation with Pennsylvania Democratic Senator John Fetterman on Monday evening – while Fetterman dined with Washington bureau chief for Breitbart, Matt Boyle – at Butterworth’s, the DC MAGA “watering hole.” This also from the Hill.

7. On the way out, the Daily Beast reports, “Elon Musk’s goons at the Department of Government Efficiency transmitted a large amount of data—all of it undetected—using a Starlink Wi-Fi terminal they installed on top of the White House.” Sources “suggested that the [the installation of the Starlink terminal] was intended to bypass White House systems that track the transmission of data—with names and time stamps—and secure it from spies.” It is unknown exactly what data Musk and his minions absconded with, and for what purpose. We can only hope the public gets some answers.

8. With Musk and Trump parting ways, other political forces are now seeking to woo the richest man in the world. Semafor reports enigmatic Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna, who represents Silicon Valley and chaired Bernie Sanders’ campaign in California, “talked with one of…Musk’s ‘senior confidants’ …about whether the ex-DOGE leader…might want to help the Democratic Party in the midterms.” Khanna added, “Having Elon speak out against the irrational tariff policy, against the deficit exploding Trump bill, and the anti-science and anti-immigrant agenda can help check Trump’s unconstitutional administration…I look forward to Elon turning his fire against MAGA Republicans instead of Democrats in 2026.” On the other hand, the Hill reports ex-Democrat Andrew Yang is publicly appealing to Musk for an alliance following Musk’s call for the establishment of an “America Party.” Yang himself founded the Forward Party in 2021. Yang indicated Musk has not responded to his overtures.

9. Meanwhile, the leadership of the Democratic Party appears to be giving up entirely. In a leaked Zoom meeting, DNC Chair Ken Martin – only elected in February – said, “I don’t know if I wanna do this anymore,” per POLITICO. On this call, Martin expressed frustration with DNC Vice Chair David Hogg, blaming him for, “[destroying] any chance I have to show the leadership that I need to.” Hogg meanwhile has doubled down, defying DNC leadership by “wading into another primary,” this time for the open seat left by the death of Congressman Gerry Conolly in Virginia, the Washington Post reports. The DNC is still weighing whether to void Hogg’s election as Vice Chair.

10. Finally, in some good news from New York City, State Assemblyman Zohran Mamdani appears to have closed the gap with disgraced former Governor Andrew Cuomo. Cuomo began the race with a 40-point lead; a new Data for Progress poll shows that lead has been cut down to just two points. Moreover, that poll was conducted before Mamdani was endorsed by AOC, who is expected to bring with her substantial support from Latinos and residents of Queens, among other groups. Notably, Mamdani has racked up tremendous numbers among young men, a demographic the Democratic Party has struggled to attract in recent elections. Cuomo will not go down without a fight however. The political nepo-baby has already secured a separate ballot line for the November election, meaning he will be in the race even if he loses the Democratic primary, and he is being boosted by a new million-dollar digital ad spend by Airbnb, per POLITICO. The New York City Democratic Primary will be held on June 24th.

This has been Francesco DeSantis, with In Case You Haven’t Heard.

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