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Damon Laker: I recently wrote a piece for Persuasion titled The Red Pill Pusher. In it, he talks about the man who was one of the first to think and talk this way. Yarvan developed these ideas from 2007 to around 2012 under the pseudonym Mencius Moldbug at a blog called Unqualified Reservations. He says real power in the country is wielded by what he calls the cathedral.

Richard Haass is a veteran American diplomat, statesman, and author. He is president of the Council on Foreign Relations, and served as Special Assistant to President George H. W. Bush and as Director of Policy Planning at the State Department in the administration of President George W. Bush. His most recent book is The Bill of Obligations: The Ten Habits of Good Citizens.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Richard Haass discuss the structural challenges, missed opportunities, and poor choices of the last thirty years; the arc of American foreign policy from Vietnam to Iraq; and how civic-minded Americans can effect positive change at a moment of crisis.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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