Speaker 2
Yeah, people think that male bisexuality is a stepping stone on the way to gay. Yeah, and I think that female bisexuality is a lie or stepping stone on the way to being married with children to a man. Right. Yeah, and I mean, I think like it
Speaker 1
probably is like easier, I guess, for some people to come out as bisexual. But I think it's also a stepping stone to being gay because like you can get on, if you're like in your 20s and you're horny and you just want to get laid, like you can get on grind during it late, like 10 seconds, I get to take a woman actually takes effort. Yeah. Okay,
Speaker 2
and so the guys that you were writing about this in this piece, how do you differentiate this population from like the classic story of like the conversion therapy or the ex-gay, the guy who is trying so hard not to be gay because he thinks that being gay will make him go to hell or there's some like religious baggage tied up in it. How is this population different? I mean, they are posting porn here.
Speaker 1
I think some of it is like cultural hang ups, but it seems to be more of like the term gay, not so much homosexuality. I think it's like actually gay identity is what they have a problem with because gay identity is a social construct, even if homosexuality isn't. It has all of these implications of like, oh, you like poppers and Charlie XCX and you talk with a list and whatever. And right. And I think that a lot of people don't feel comfortable with that. And it's not even, it's not, I think when people say they're not comfortable with that, the automatic reaction from facts is like, oh, this is internalized homophobia. And I'm like, there's nothing inherent about like wanting to go about being gay and wanting to go to a circuit party, you know what I mean? I actually quoted Mark Simpson, he went to term Metrosexual and he wrote this book called anti-gay in the 90s, which was sort of a collection of essays against gay liberation question market. Seems kind of complicated, but he's openly gay, so he can do it. It's fine. But he sort of describes the point of trying to make here better than I can, he compared coming out to an evangelical experience. And he said, to be reborn, you have to destroy the person that existed before. So the outperson now recalls he was gay from the early stage before he encountered puberty, before the aftervert was cold, et cetera. Early playground friendships with members of the same sex are now seeing for what they were, passionate gay attachments, which no one straight could possibly have entertained. On the other hand, any encounters with or interested or marriage to the opposite sex is now quite rightly seen as nothing but an ill-judgment attempt to satisfy one's peers, parents, guilt, false consciousness, or just sisterly feeling. You know the scenario, I thought I loved you, but really I just didn't do your makeup skills. And I think like that is maybe at the root of a lot of what I was seeing. At least for like the ones I talked to, some of them wouldn't talk to me. And so the ones I did talk to basically told me that for some of these guys, it was maybe just some sort of weird like masculinity fetish, where like what's the most masculine thing you can do, I guess is fuck a woman if you're gay. It's bizarre in some ways, because it seems