How to Deal With the End User

I feel like having to deal with the end user or like a customer is a really unique experience that a lot of engineers never get. I mean, certainly it teaches you stuff about yourself, but I feel like it also teaches you to understand and empathize with what other people are trying to accomplish. 100%. That's why I do what I do today because I think it's from when I was younger and working in Apple with the end users. And this was like 14 15, right? Like most people don't care when they're like 30. So I just deeply cared about the experience the web was new. I thought even back then, this is what I'm going to do.