In a consumer story charities come to see themselves as solving fit solving problems for people and the only way in relation to them is donating to them. And so they come to see us as a man and then even donations come to be a kind of competitive basis where it's like, like what's the return on on the money invested? So I started to talk about in various places that our only agency is to choose between the options someone else offers but we're conditioned to make that choice on the basis of self interest. All of that is like back to that meadows quotes like the, the story as the source of the system the story manifesting in every aspect. It makes these things feel

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