Scale: How Much Solar Would We Need?

In this episode of Modem Futura, Sean Leahy and Andrew Maynard welcome ASU’s Clark Miller for a wide-ranging conversation on what it means to be techno-human—not biological beings who simply “use” technology, but people whose bodies, behaviors, and imaginations are inseparable from the industrial systems we’ve built. Clark reframes modern life as a “technosphere” where electricity grids, cars, air conditioning, industrial food, pharmaceuticals, and even microplastics shape who we are and how we live. From there, the discussion turns to why energy feels increasingly invisible (and how that invisibility is often intentional—driven by safety codes, reliability goals, and governance that narrows decision-making to technical experts). The episode then tackles the clean energy transition as a design problem: net-zero emissions matters, but so do the human outcomes that come with it—especially who gets to own and benefit from the future energy system. Using solar as a concrete example, Clark walks through the staggering scale required and the political economy embedded in rules about ownership (including who gets left out, like renters). The hosts also explore pressures from AI and data centers, the allure—and limits—of “shortcut” solutions like small modular nuclear reactors, and why Phoenix’s extreme heat and grid vulnerability make it a high-stakes preview of climate futures. The conversation closes on hopeful pathways: urban solar (rooftops and parking shade), resilience with storage, the role of imagination (including solarpunk), and how AI could help build better techno-human capabilities—if we choose to aim it that way.

Clark Miller, Ph.D. [Bio]

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Modem Futura is a production of the Future of Being Human initiative at Arizona State University. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. To learn more about the Future of Being Human initiative and all of our other projects visit - https://futureofbeinghuman.asu.edu

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Host Bios:

Sean M. Leahy, PhD - ASU Bio
Sean is an an internationally recognized technologist, futurist, and educator innovating humanistic approaches to emerging technology through a Futures Studies approach. He is a Foresight Catalyst for the Future of Being Human Initiative and Research Scientist for the School for the Future of Innovation in Society and Senior Global Futures Scholar with the Julie Ann Wrigley Global Futures Laboratory at Arizona State University.

Andrew Maynard, PhD - ASU Bio
Andrew is a scientist, author, thought leader, and Professor of Advanced Technology Transitions in the ASU School for the Future of Innovation in Society. He is the founder of the ASU Future of Being Human initiative, Director of the ASU Risk Innovation Nexus, and was previously Associate Dean in the ASU College of Global Futures.

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