Non-naturalism is where I start being a little different from the way that most philosophers especially ones that have published articles on moral realism and anti-realism are coming from. The problem is that I don't know what it would mean for there to be a stance independent moral fact. Now of course it does not follow that because I don't understand a particular term or concept that therefore it's false or nonexistent or unintelligible but this is where it gets interesting they can't explain what the terms mean.

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