In this episode, John welcomes Mark Vernon to discuss his two books, 'Dante's Divine Comedy: A Guide for the Spiritual Journey' and 'Awake: William Blake and the Imagination'. They explore the profound psychological, philosophical, and spiritual insights offered by Dante and Blake, touching upon topics like pilgrimage, the imaginal, and the role of the imagination in renewing perception. Mark shares his experiences and how these works resonate with contemporary cognitive science and spirituality. The conversation delves deep into understanding the connections between ancient wisdom and modern thought.

Mark Vernon is a writer, psychotherapist, and philosopher whose work explores the meeting point of spirituality, psychology, and philosophy. Based in London, his background in physics, theology, and psychotherapy shapes a multidisciplinary approach that bridges ancient wisdom traditions with contemporary understandings of the mind and meaning.

🔗 Learn more about Mark Vernon's work: markvernon.com

Awake: William Blake and the Power of Imagination — by Mark Vernon

The Divine Comedy — by Dante Alighieri

A World in a Grain of Sand — William Blake's poem reference ("Auguries of Innocence")

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00:00 Welcome to the Lectern

01:00 Discussing Dante's Divine Comedy

02:30 Exploring William Blake's work

04:00 Mark Vernon's background and inspirations

07:00 The philosophy and impact of pilgrimage

10:00 Dante's pilgrimage and personal experiences

19:00 The nature of Dante's poem

24:30 Addressing controversial topics in Dante's work

31:00 The in-between and the imaginal

33:30 Triston's predictive processing

35:00 The brain's predictive nature

35:30 Deep learning and pattern recognition

36:00 Metacognition and future self

38:30 Blake's visionary experiences

39:00 The power of imagination

41:02 41:02 "We don't hear sound waves — we hear meaning. That's how strong the imaginal is."

56:00 Confident imagination and fierce critique

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Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned in this Episode

Pilgrimage as a Path of Transformation

The Divine Comedy as a Map of the Soul

Knowledge Through Transformation, Not Proposition

The In-Between and the Imaginal Realm

Cleansing the Doors of Perception

The Renewal of the Senses

Theoria as Pilgrimage and Contemplation

Innocence, Openness, and Inner Vision

The Descent as a Hidden Ascent

William Desmond – Philosopher of the Between

Charles Taylor – A Secular Age

Henri Corbin – The Imaginal vs. The Imaginary

Ibn 'Arabi – Sufi Visionary of the Heart

Plato – Theoria and the Methu Aixis

C.G. Jung – Synchronicity and the Soul's Descent

Seeing God Again for the First Time – John Vervaeke

The Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 12 – The Faces of God

The Philosophical Silk Road and Pilgrimage as Practice

The Camino de Santiago and Shikoku Pilgrimage

The Covenant of Return – Integration and Homecoming

Threshold and Passage as Spiritual Acts

The Face of the World and the Call to Change Your Life

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You Can’t Think Your Way Out of the Problem You Thought Into - Dr. Wayne Dyer

The Resilient Mind

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