i often start with what are the simplest ways for somebody to get the idea of this, you know, this concept? And so behaviours are generally a little more straightforward. So those are concrete things that we can pay attention to and then we canpay attention concretely to the results of those. But starting with something super concrete, typically not ing thinking or our minds, because it's so easy to get lost in the story,. especially when we've never had enough distance to be able to see that there's thinking. The second step can be, oh, youow, can you notice a thought, like a cloud in the sky, or like a leaf in a river, we're drifting

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