A lot of people who do this sort of work, do it from a place of kind of values and conviction. And so I think just to name some of that, and I'm kind of pointing to one of the chapters in Delirious Pedagogy is this kind of learning outcomes rubric. We lean on a kind of a streams of engagement model from something called the National Coalition for Dialogue and Deliberation. It's super helpful because it's one thing just to say, like, we should talk to each other. But depending on what you're trying to do, there are different processes and structures that are going to help you accomplish that.