Why do some people have strong moral opinions but don't act on them, while other people effect real change?

It's a question Josh wanted to ask Australia's most influential athlete-turned-politican. David Pocock was a rugby champion who played for Australia's national team, one of the world's most iconic rugby sides.

He then became the first senator not aligned with any major political party to represent the Australian Capital Territory. He was one of the most prominent faces in a tsunami of independents who annihilated the ruling conservative government. The billionaire backer of that political revolution, Simon Holmes à Court, had a fascinating conversation on this show which you should listen to here

You don't neeeeed to hear Holmes à Court before listening to this episode, but it's a bloody great chat so you might as well.

Josh's conversation with The MeatEater, Steven Rinella, which Senator Pocock refers to at the start, can be heard here

Senator Pocock grew up in a white family in Zimbabwe in the 1990s before moving to Australia in his teens. He and Josh discuss his anti-racism, his activism, why Aussies gamble so much, what the purpose of sport is, and whether it's time to do away with the two-party system.

If you're new to this show and you're a fan of Dave Pocock's, here are a few other episodes you might want to check out:
Sam Harris
Megan Phelps Roper
Douglas Murray Live
Tim Minchin

Needless to say, subscribe to the show in your podcast app and on YouTube if you dig it.

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