Debra: Developers will sometimes go to extreme lamps to avoid paying for something. I want to help the people who are pre sale, and then once they're live like what's going to happen with them. It's a lot of that very broad thinking. And I think that's very hard to justify as well, because people are like, but we don't need it right now. There's no right way to measure dev rel - there's too many factors.

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