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When China first began experimenting with capitalism in the 1980s, the West was certain the experiment would fail. But two of its assumptions — that government controls stifle economic growth, and that the internet cannot be tamed — were quickly proven wrong.

Nearly 40 years later, China rivals the United States as a global superpower. Its continued success is challenging not just the West’s assumptions about China, but the West’s assumptions about itself. Guest: Philip P. Pan, the Asia editor for The New York Times. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.