It seems to me that there's a really important point you're making which is of course you're engaging with the history of abstraction. It's almost like you're claiming that abstraction is impossible because your work obviously has a distinct relationship with content and with very subjective content in all sorts of ways. Would you say that that's a contention of the impossibility of abstraction to a degree? I do think abstraction exists but it's not a fixed state. So yeah I would agree with that. And so we're really embracing and so we're aware of a certain violence in the work but there's also a certain beauty.

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