I think you probably see us with the artists that you study. I got a degree in biology from stanford, and then was going off to be an army officer. But in the course of that, i started hanging out with artists and bohemians in northbeach and san francisco. So my first calling was as a professional photographer,. That then turned into a so called creative photographer doing art. And i was doing multi media with a group called usco ind new york., which basically took on the role as an artist in the world. And that kind of stuck. It was alwas not part of a hierarchical organization, in not trying to build a hierarchical organization.

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