This is part two of our conversation with Jason W. Moore, a historical geographer at Binghamton University. In this discussion we delve into the concept of "substance fetishism" within Marxian social theory, the dangers it poses, and its implications for understanding the web of life.  Part 1: Against Climate Doomism and the Bourgeois Character of American Environmentalism  Moore raises concerns about the misguided focus on substance fetishism, which prioritizes the management of substances over the revolutionizing of labor relations. The conversation also touches on the historical and contemporary implications of this perspective, including its impact on understanding energy histories, class formation, and imperialism. He critiques the narrow focus of some environmental and Marxist scholars, advocating for a more integrated approach that considers the socioecological dynamics of labor and class struggle. We also discuss the role of intellectuals and the limitations of academic discourse in addressing these antagonismss. Our conversation concludes with reflections on the potential for revolutionary change and the importance of historical materialism in understanding and addressing the current ecological and social crises.   Special Co-host Casey is a historian and organizer based in New York and Chicago. He is focused on the politics, economy, and connected histories in South Asia and the Middle East, specifically the Arab Gulf. His work focuses on questions of development, ecology, and political resistance, as well as connecting global-scale events to local diaspora communities within the US. As always, If you like what we do and want to support our ability to have more conversations like this. Please consider becoming a patron. You can do so for as little as 1 Dollar a month. We bring you these conversations totally independently with no corporate, state, or grant funding.    This episode is edited & produced by Aidan Elias. Music, as always, is by Televangel   Links:    Global Capitalism in the Great Implosion: From Planetary Superexploitation to Planetary Socialism? How to Read Capitalism in the Web of Life Opiates of the Environmentalists Power, Profit, & Promethianism, Part 1 Power, Profit, & Promethianism, Part 2 The Fear and the Fix