The Psychology of Progress

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I wonder whether there's a kind of weird association where we've started to make between pessimism and virtuousness. I find that to be wholly unconvincing because in fact, if nothing's changed over 70 years, then why keep going? Racism is permanent and it's never changing. It might change form, but it's never going to become any less bad. And so we're capable of making more improvements.

Susan Neiman is an American philosopher and writer. She is the Director of the Einstein Forum in Potsdam, Germany, and the author of Left is Not Woke.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Susan Neiman discuss how liberals can uphold their universal values while maintaining a politics of empathy and compassion; how the left’s tendency to discount the progress of the past inhibits progress for the future; and whether Germany can serve as a model for how America, and other nations, should deal with the dark aspects of their own history.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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