Intro

At the start of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, European leaders painted the battle in stark moral terms, imposing harsh sanctions against Russia and talking about President Volodymyr Zelensky as a hero.

But as the war drags on, different conversations have taken place behind the scenes to consider what Ukraine might need to give up to achieve peace.

Guest: Matina Stevis-Gridneff, the Brussels bureau chief for The New York Times.

Want more from The Daily? For one big idea on the news each week from our team, subscribe to our newsletter. 

Background reading: 

• Countries in the Group of 7 face dueling pressures: Penalizing Russia while easing the economic pain at home.
• Chancellor Olaf Scholz of Germany and President Emmanuel Macron of France are expected to visit Ukraine on Thursday — but they may face a tense reception.

For more information on today’s episode, visit 

nytimes.com/thedaily

. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.