Intro

In this thought-provoking discussion, Malcolm and Simone Collins explore the complex and controversial topic of transgender identity, its potential links to mental health issues, and its societal impact. This video offers a nuanced examination of the trans phenomenon, touching on social contagion theories, the relationship between high IQ and gender dysphoria, and the potential risks and benefits of transitioning. Key points covered: The correlation between high IQ and transgender identity Theories on social contagion and the spread of trans ideology The impact of transitioning on mental health and suicide rates The role of autism in gender dysphoria Critiques of current approaches to treating gender-questioning individuals The potential exploitation of trans identities by bad actors The impact on lesbian and gay communities The political implications of the trans movement This video presents a critical analysis of current research and societal trends surrounding transgender issues. It challenges viewers to consider multiple perspectives on this sensitive topic. Note that this discussion contains mature themes and controversial viewpoints.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] What if this memetic structure which encourages transition instead of being something that is intrinsically toxic is actually a social technology that evolved to treat the increased nihilism and bupacidality caused by the urban monoculture.

Simone Collins: I like that

Malcolm Collins: as a premise spicy. So how could it do this? When you transition, you are basically abandoning an identity, your current identity, and then building a new one.

Simone Collins: You're literally killing it. Actually. For example, dead naming people is dead naming them that person is dead to them

Malcolm Collins: What is most disturbing is that after a year on blockers, a significant increase was found in the first item.

Quote, I deliberately try to hurt or kill self, end quote. This is in the youth survey questionnaire. So it was increasing. Puberty blockers increased even by Travis stocks own, as pro trans as you can get. They just didn't want to [00:01:00] publish this increases. Do

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone! I'm excited to be spitting some information and new theories with you that I have had recently today. Today, we are going to go back into the trans rabbit hole. We are going to be discussing a new framing I heard for gender transition that makes me dramatically more pro gender transition than I ever have been historically, and the way that gender transition is played out in mainstream society which is really interesting, which I think is different than just talking about trans issues.

As I've said before in the show I think that there's the historic trans movement. And now there's the new trans movement, which contains some elements that are more like a religion than like a traditional gender ideology movement. Now the second thing I wanted to talk about, which I find really interesting is a recent Emil Kierkegaard, I know, [00:02:00] thought criminal piece that was talking about something that everyone basically knows, but I thought he did a pretty good job of summarizing it and laying out the stats again, which is that trans people are much more likely to be high IQ than other individuals.

Simone Collins: And this isn't

Malcolm Collins: like a small thing. In fact, the difference between trans people and the general population is higher than the difference between Ashkenazi Jews in the general population.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: About a standard deviation, higher IQ than the general population. That

Simone Collins: doesn't surprise me because you're looking at a very small, very unique and very differentiated population.

And Ashkenazi Jews are not that different.

Malcolm Collins: What are you talking about? You've heard of trans people? Compare to trans people. For example, gay people have a lower IQ on average than men. No. Really? Yes. Yes. No. This group is really unique. Wow. And they checked. It's not explained by anything else.

It's not that they're, disproportionately birthed male or female, it's not that they're, their age. It's not that [00:03:00] they're. They don't have a different,

Simone Collins: do they have a different gender? I feel like there's pretty much every background, culturally, religiously, ethnically. No, but they controlled for that in this study.

They did. Oh, okay. So even if

Malcolm Collins: it's true That doesn't matter to this answer. It's just something disproportionately now, this is actually really interesting if what we are seeing in the modern trans movement is a disorder. So one of the things I say about transness is it would make sense. If human brains are gender differentiated to some extent, like that seems obvious that sometimes this gender differentiation would get messed up in like a systemic way.

Like intersex people exist, stuff like that. Like why wouldn't that happen in the brain? But if that was what was causing the modern trans movement, usually when somebody has a major Deformity, basically, we'll say it's some sort of like psychiatric condition or deformity like this. They are in a lower IQ group which just makes sense.

When you have one weird mutation in the way somebody's developing, you're likely to have other weird mutations. You're likely to just have a higher genetic [00:04:00] load. And the Trans status is not having that is really interesting. In fact, there's only two other conditions that fall into that. One is autism.

Simone Collins: It must be schizophrenia, right?

Malcolm Collins: No, schizophrenia is not associated with higher IQ. The other is anorexia.

Simone Collins: No.

Malcolm Collins: All right. I've got a two for here. This gets really interesting. And there's a high correlation with transness and autism. So I suspect that this is what's actually booing the IQ.

Simone Collins: Body dysmorphia. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah yeah, so I, I think it's just that they're drawing disproportionately from the autistic community, and I'll explain and I think it's part of the memetic structure only works in higher IQ people, and I'll explain what I mean by this in just a second

oh yeah that anorexia is interesting in that the studies that have looked at it it's pretty different from a lot of other disorders. It appears a lot more like a multiple personality disorder in that it appears to be culturally transmitted to an extent. A great example of this is it was pretty unheard of in Japan until they, like [00:05:00] 1970s when they really began to consume Western media and then they had an explosion of it.

And so one thing could be is that when something is culturally transmitted, it is more likely to appeal to high IQ populations, but also think about it this way. If you look at autistic people, they develop special interests slash obsessions. And some, there was actually a study done on de transitioners where a lot of them said that transitioning was their special interest.

They didn't realize it at the time, but it was one of their sort of autistic special interests. And

Simone Collins: I think you're missing also a major filtering. thing here too, which is the, a level of conscientiousness, which correlates with IQ, if memory serves, that goes into being both anorexic and a transitioner and some of these other weird things is that the amount of self control you need to have to be successfully anorexic and to successfully transition.

Malcolm Collins: Point is it's a differentiator that requires higher self control instead of lower self control, [00:06:00] which is most, psychological illnesses you're going to have but I'm going a spicy take here. So as you remember when I was younger, I would do a lot of studying how brainwashing works and building I'd look at different sequences of words and I would mass AB test them in online environments to find the perfect way to get women to sleep with me.

For dating. That's a strong interest to me. I was very interested in how, people, how they get them to transform their identity and how I could utilize those techniques. And I will admit I was not a great person at the time to get my immediate needs met. I just then reached a point where I saturated those needs and then was able to think clearly and realized that I never should have wanted those needs in the first place.

In that a life. Built in pursuit of, sexual conquest is not a life that is ever going to be fulfilling to anyone. I don't believe any of these people who pretend that they're fulfilled by this art. I think they're deeply sad [00:07:00] people. But, one of the techniques that I learned, and this isn't brainwashing, it's more like a logical structure, like a memetic structure.

which was very effective at getting people to sleep with me. But anyway these techniques that I was using they were often like a mimetic structure and they did not work very well on people of medium to low IQ.

I, I really struggled with it, and people can be like, that's surprising, you think that they would be like The

Simone Collins: gullible dumb people who would, The gullible dumb people, Yes, yeah. But that's not

Malcolm Collins: true logical structures, if what you're doing is like implanting a memetic machine, Logical structures only work

Simone Collins: on logical people, and fewer people are logical than one might like to conclude.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they basically break it down when you put it in their head. So i'll give you an example of one of these structures so people can understand broadly how like a memetic machine works

Simone Collins: Okay

Malcolm Collins: so this is a very simple one that I used to get someone to sleep with me But somebody can understand you might have a more complex self replicating structure Which is I think what part of [00:08:00] the modern trans movement is but just for the sleep with me structure Okay, you know starts with a question like you don't find me unattractive, right?

And very few people are going to, if you're broadly trying to say, I think you're attractive. And I'm like and you think like happiness and positive emotional subsets are like an intrinsically good thing. Like you want more pleasure and happiness in the world. And they're like, yeah.

And I'm like and because you find me good looking, it would make you feel good to hook up with me and it would make me feel good to hook up with you. Therefore, what is your argument against hooking up with me? And what I am setting up there that is is a pillar system. So people might not see what I'm doing.

I actually want them to give me an answer there, right? Because then they have established their logical pillars as to why they're not open to me hooking up. And then you just get to attack their remaining pillars. And then you knock over the pillars and you've got the sale. But people can see that's a very simple, logical set.

Actually, this might [00:09:00] be why when I began building like deeper philosophy outside of just I want to win these status games I was born into in the society around me, I had such a disrespect of systems based around pleasure because I saw how I had been able to use those systems to so medically hack people.

Yeah. So there's two things you probably notice about this logical structure argument, right? Two, it's gonna, one, it's gonna be less effective on, um, less intelligent people. And two, it's actually going to be much more effective on more autistic leaning people.

Simone Collins: I wouldn't work on me because I don't really care about pleasure or happiness.

No, you

Malcolm Collins: never did, but a lot of people do. They have, I'd say the vast majority of people, we've talked about in our levels of thinking video or these general utilitarians, and they do. And it's very hard for generally utilitarian to argue against that argument once they've set themselves in that position.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And And I think that's what the, you can think of this larger trans memetic structure as, it's a self replicating memetic structure [00:10:00] that needs a fairly high competence substrate. to grow with it.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And when a

Malcolm Collins: substrate is lower competence, it begins to break it down because it's fairly heavy.

I would say like it's a fairly sophisticated internally reinforcing memetic subset. So this is one thing, but I don't want to talk about the boobicide. Cause we can't talk about it in any other terms given, um, YouTube's restrictions and everything like that. But as people know let's be clear

Simone Collins: that we're not talking about mastectomies here.

Malcolm Collins: No, I'm talking about the other word that starts with an S that we cannot talk about. Yes.

Transness relates to boobicide in a couple really weird ways and I began to think about these you see this huge portion of increased boobicidality in, in, in leading up to transition for a lot of people. And some studies have argued against this.

I think it's probably true. [00:11:00] but you also see an increased risk of boobicide in the general population now that has never been seen

Simone Collins: before.

Malcolm Collins: And so I'm going to post some stats on screen here and it was like okay, so you've got trans individuals in this sample

boobicidal ideation. You're looking at 92 percent had it.

And 45 percent had an attempt in the sample.

Not trans you had 70 percent had it. And 22 percent had an attempt non binary 89 percent had it and 35 percent had an attempt. Um, you're just seeing like incredibly high rates.

Simone Collins: I wonder what these numbers look like for anorexics. Is that being a sort of control pop?

Just, this

Malcolm Collins: specific study was from the Stonewall school support, 2017. A lot of critics have attacked it. But let's just pretend that these numbers are true because we do know that there is an explosion in bupacidality among young people right now.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: What if transition instead of being or this memetic structure which [00:12:00] encourages transition instead of being something that is intrinsically toxic is actually a social technology that evolved to treat the increased nihilism and bupacidality caused by the urban monoculture.

Simone Collins: I like that

Malcolm Collins: as a premise spicy. So how could it do this? When you transition, you are basically abandoning an identity, your current identity, and then building a new one.

Simone Collins: You're literally killing it. Actually. For example, dead naming people is dead naming them that person is dead to them.

You are. Like a phoenix completely immolating and rising from the ashes is this new, beautiful identity.

Malcolm Collins: So isn't that fascinating? That's what we're actually seeing here. And something that would encourage this belief is that if you look cross culturally, the concept of transness that you see with the native American communities is actually very [00:13:00] interesting because it doesn't look like the concept of transness we have within our own culture.

Simone Collins: Are you talking about two spirit people?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it was in two spirit people and Fafafine people, which is in Samoa, you have a similar concept. So in these groups, while they have been adopted as a type of trans by the current trans community they don't actually function like trans people. They're more like a recognition of gay people as a separate gender.

So if I was going to word this differently these would be like, if you were recognized as for example as a young man, you are allowed to take part in female gender norms and sleep with straight men or otherwise categorized by society as heterosexual men, but would likely in real life. Like in our society, not in real life in Western culture, be categorized as gay pitchers.

Now it's also important to understand that gay pitchers historically were considered straight. If you look at like ancient Greece, if you look at even in medieval [00:14:00] Europe men who were the tops in gay relationships were often considered straight or straight adjacent. The thing you really weren't supposed to be as the bottom.

Simone Collins: Wait, I've not heard pitchers before. So what's the other side of this batterers

Malcolm Collins: and

Simone Collins: Catchers. Okay. Thank you. Carry on.

Malcolm Collins: So it was really interesting about FFA. Is they basically live their lives and two spirits, very similar to the way we would say an effete gay man lives their lives and they're happy.

And they're not having these higher rates of boobicide that you're seeing in other groups uh, that we're seeing in the West. Um, Indicates that there's something different going on here with this community.

And

Simone Collins: You mean totally unmoored from mainstream developed societal concepts around transness?

Totally unmoored

Malcolm Collins: from our biologies.

Simone Collins: Ah, okay.

Malcolm Collins: So what would be the case, as I'm saying here, is that if we didn't have this trans identity, many of the people who are transitioning would just be considered butch lesbians or very ethite gay men. [00:15:00] And, one of the studies that was done this year that is worth mentioning, as you also see this in the West, there was a study done in 2003, great study, I'll give the name and the edits here.

We thinking of the 20, 24 study development of gender, non contentedness during adolescence and early adulthood.

Malcolm Collins: 90 percent of, when you're talking about 11 year olds who identify with a different gender at that age, identify with their birth gender by the time that they are 23. And the majority, and a lot of them are disproportionately within this group, they were just gay. That's basically what we find out.

This is a common thing here, but I want to go deeper here because I looked at some other reports.

So there was another report and I'll put it on, on, on screen here. Which shows something really interesting. So you might've noticed in the other group is boobacidality among non binary individuals was also really high.

Yeah, that surprised me. But it's not just not binary, it's also bisexuals. So I'm gonna put a, another graph on the screen here and you don't need to see it to know, but [00:16:00] the female to male BIC side rate is high, but not particularly higher than the bisexual girl BIC side rate,

Simone Collins: right?

Malcolm Collins: So what if what we're seeing here is people who are gender confused are much more likely to be pulled in. to these ideas, right? And then we're going to be like who gets gender confused? Who gets pulled into these ideas? And now we need to talk about a whole other weird thing about bubicidality. In the news, you're not supposed to talk about bubicidality. Who like the

World Health Organization has prohibitions on talking about

Simone Collins: bubicidality. Because there is a bit of a social contagion with it, right? It's not a

Malcolm Collins: bit of a social contagion. It's

Simone Collins: a

Malcolm Collins: very serious social contagion.

But yeah, no, you have a very big risk of contagion. When people hear about bubicidality, they're much more likely to think about bubicidality. Which is why in all other parts of psychology, there would be like, obviously you should never tell a patient, if you have X condition, you're much [00:17:00] more likely to be bubicidal.

Because it makes them much more likely to be bubicidal.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: And then we can say, oh, come on, that can't have anything to do with what's going on here. Except. There are two groups that are uniquely susceptible to suggestibility when it comes to boobacidality. They are teenagers and autists. Which are also groups that are hugely over represented within the trans movement.

To get an idea, 72 percent of autistic adults scored above the psychiatric cutoff for boobacide risk, compared to 33 percent of the general population. So you basically have this, both cause that you can implant in somebody's rage, which is bubicidal ideation, and then a solution as one memetic package, which is very good at spreading in our society, but that historically, you would never tell people this reminds me of the [00:18:00] South Park episode where Cartman Rob Reiner is trying to sacrifice Cartman to prove to everyone how serious his movement is.

And I feel like with many of the young people, if you're a trained psychologist, you need to know that you are through bringing these kids into a session being like, oh, if you don't do this, you're going to commit boobicides. That you're going to dramatically increase the number of young people in this cohort boobiciding.

And yet they don't seem to care. even when there is a lot of data showing that it may not even be higher within this cohort. And so we're going to get to that in a second. But it almost certainly is higher now. Just everything we understand about how boobicide works would say, if these people are going to an authority figure and this authority figure is telling you, this is the one solution to not boobicide, that it's going to become the one solution to not boobicide, especially if you're autistic.

Wow. Yeah.

Hell do you think you're doing? This is the girls bathroom! Alright, I need to tell you something, I'm trans ginger. [00:19:00] What?! Did you notice the bow? It's okay Red I can take a s**t here.

I'm a dumb chick, too. You are not transgender, Eric. You don't even know what that means. Yeah, huh, it means I live a life of torture and confusion because society sees me as a boy but I'm really a girl.

Trust me, you don't want this hot potato. But this isn't a hurting, confused child we're talking about. This is Eric Cartman. Nobody else is gonna know that. You better just give him what he wants. All you gotta do is just read the words on the teleprompter here. Heh, okay. Let's see how the

Transphobes. deal with this.

You know, some people say there's no proof that

Not transitioning children. kills. I guess I'm the proof. By the time you see this commercial, I'll be dead.

Dead? That was fantastic! , what does that mean, I'll be dead? That was very good, Eric. Here, eat this cupcake. It has sprinkles. Do you know what a hero is?

A hero is somebody who [00:20:00] sacrifices himself for the good of others. You can be a hero, Eric. . Jesus Christ!

Simone Collins: So we could

Malcolm Collins: see it as a quote unquote solution to the increased nihilism of our society, right? Yeah,

Simone Collins: or you could, you're insinuating too, though, that they're creating the problem and then presenting a solution.

Malcolm Collins: But that's the problem as well, is that it's not really a solution because they're also creating the problem.

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: Um, And, and they might be making the problem worse. So if you look at some of these other studies that I've been giving you, they'll have like small cohorts, like 13 people or something that's actually in the boobicide group.

Simone Collins: This is what

Malcolm Collins: I call like the PACE study, but there's some longer and another thing that the trans community does, a lot of trans individuals might not know that they do this, is when they talk about transitioning, lowering the risk of boobicidality.

They're often using different studies. So to establish the risk, they'll use a study that was specifically pulling from like a concerned population. And so the risk will be really high. That's why it was really high in the [00:21:00] straight population was in that study as well. And they were establishing the lowered rates, they'll then pull from a separate study that was pulling individuals in a totally different way.

When you look at longitudinal studies, you end up with studies like this one called the long term follow up of transsexual persons undergoing sex reassignment study cohort study in Sweden. So to quote here, the overall mortality for sex reassignment persons was higher during follow up than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from bubicide.

Sex reassignment persons also had an increased risk in bubicide attempts and psychiatric inpatient rate of care. So it showed that they had a 19 X higher rate than the control group. So it made them. When you're looking longitudinally, it basically makes everything astronomically worse. Okay, so let's look at a different study here.

The National Center for Transgender Equality Preventing Transgender Bubicide is the name of this study. [00:22:00] So in this study, it was looking at the Travestock board of directors and unpublished reports. So people know the whole Travestock thing. They were this very pro trans organization. And so there was a reason they didn't publish this report, but they had it when people were going through their files after they were shut down for abuse.

Um, and it says, quote, only one change was positive according to their parents. The young people experienced, this is for people who underwent puberty blockers. Only one change was positive. According to their parents, the young people experienced less internalizing behavioral problems as registered by the Child Behavioral Checklist.

That was a, less internalizing behavioral problems. There were three negative changes. Natal girls showed a significant increase in behavioral and emotional problems, according to their parents. Also from the Child Behavioral. Oh,

Simone Collins: That's the testosterone for you.

Malcolm Collins: Of course, right? So I don't even really take that.

Yeah, that doesn't count. One dimension of health related to quality of life scale completed by parents showed a significant decrease. [00:23:00] And keep in mind, these are affirming parents, generally, if their kids are at Travistock. For sure. A decrease in physical well being of their child. What is most disturbing is that after a year on blockers, a significant increase was found in the first item.

Quote, I deliberately try to hurt or kill self, end quote. This is in the youth survey questionnaire. So it was increasing. Puberty blockers increased even by Travis stocks own, as pro trans as you can get. They just didn't want to publish this increases. Do

Simone Collins: you think that's because in these cases, people were transitioning and then discovering that.

It didn't miraculously cure their depression, anxiety, or body dysmorphia?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they talk about this a lot in the community. You first get this feeling of euphoria when you're on this because you feel like things are changing, everything's getting fixed, and then Following the euphoria, you typically get in a really high increased risk of bupocidality because you begin to doubt.

But now you've also othered yourselves and made a lot of big claims, causing cognitive [00:24:00] dissonance. Yeah. And this isn't it, so there was a large U. S. survey in 2009 by the National Center for Transgender Equality and the National Gay and Lesbian Tax Survey. force. And the results were published in the National Transgender Discrimination Survey Report on Health and Health Care.

And it showed those who have medically transitioned 45 percent and surgically transitioned 43 percent have higher rates of attempted boobicide than those who have not, 34 and 39 respectively. Across the board, we're seeing that this doesn't actually fix it. It's more like a temporary fix.

For bubicidal ideation that makes the problem worse over time.

Simone Collins: Here's what I might argue. Going back to the earlier point that transitioning can feel like a rebirth following a death, right? That maybe you and I've talked about before that the impact of completely changing your context, how if you have an addiction or some other emotional problem, if you.

[00:25:00] Move to Japan to quit smoking or you completely change the cast of characters around you, your costume and your set. Yes, you can become a different character. And yes, you can break out a lot of, out of a lot of really harmful or nonproductive mental loops. And I think maybe the problem here is transition can absolutely facilitate that by allowing you to break down and then create a new identity.

The problem is a lot of these kids, especially, And I think maybe we're looking at the impact of this happening with youth gender transition versus adult transition is these kids are still stuck with their parents. They're still stuck going to school. They're able to try to start the process, but really it's an aborted death and rebirth.

Like they've singed the phoenix. But the phoenix has not become engulfed in flames and turned into ashes, right? The phoenix is now just burnt. And now you have a burnt phoenix, right? And they haven't been reborn. They haven't been able to start anew. So the problem is they're not quite born yet.

I'm

Malcolm Collins: gonna challenge you here. I think it's probably pretty effective. For a short term, feeling like a different person and reestablishing the narratives with which you're [00:26:00] engaging with reality, I think it is probably very effective.

The problem is the new narratives that they're building, if you look at our levels of thought are athetic moral systems based around gender identity which IE when they're choosing an action, what to wear, what to do, et cetera the question that they're thinking is, does this align with X gender expression?

Simone Collins: And the

Malcolm Collins: gender expression may be nuanced, but they confuse. gender identity with morality, right?

Instead of, and I think that this is the problem. I think most people with any sort of sophisticated moral framework, unfortunately, and this is the thing, like sophisticated for moral frameworks do not correlate really strongly with high IQ. You need to be above a certain IQ to have one. But if you look at something like my Stanford reunion, remember, I mentioned that like a lot of people there were just living lives to get the money counter as high as possible,

Simone Collins: status optimizers or achieve money

Malcolm Collins: optimizers.

That's like the least sophisticated moral framework a human can [00:27:00] have. And yet these people are like objectively some of the smartest humans of our generation. And I know this is someone who interacts with a lot of people. Like these are smart people, some of them smarter than myself. But that doesn't mean that they are.

philosophically sophisticated that they haven't seen. Why do I exist? It's just okay. I'm not optimized money. So I'm not saying that, uh, so being extra smart does not protect you, but it can make you susceptible if you are not intently engaging with your own philosophy on these sort of self replicating moral.

Frameworks,

Simone Collins: right? The

Malcolm Collins: problem that you're going to deal with is most sophisticated moral frameworks would see gender identity is just not particularly important because most sophisticated moral frameworks do not find human emotion like optimizing for self comfort or positive emotional states in oneself as a thing of moral value.

Simone Collins: Or as aesthetic presentation is something of great moral value. Yeah, it doesn't matter that much, right?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. They're just like, what, why does it [00:28:00] matter? If I can do this to become slightly more efficient than I'll do it, it's probably not going to make me more efficient. And this also, when you look at the trans maxing community, you can see it was an it, like the.

The, these are in cells who are like, look, I just can't make it in life as a guy, so I'll be a woman because life is easier for women. They're like being a woman is like living life in tutorial mode. Okay, your ceiling is lower, but I was never going to get near the ceiling either. Um, and these individuals for them, what is it?

But the in cell alternative to boobicide, right? Okay, game over. I'm starting again. Yeah. Within this lifetime. The other really interesting thing to consider here is that trans men. So women who transition they often look about 10 to 20 years younger when they transition. So it's also like they're being reborn at a younger age.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah. Okay. Yes. They look more like a boy, an adolescent male rather than a man.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which [00:29:00] is really interesting within all of this. Yeah. And they

Simone Collins: start and a younger start. That's very interesting. Another

Malcolm Collins: really interesting thing. Cause I've been listening to a lot of detransition videos recently.

Another really interesting phenomenon in detransition is a talk about how when they D transition it was like the transition just encapsulated almost the way like a foreign body in your body can get encapsulated by a little piece of skin, like a piece of glass or something like that.

Like inside your, not skin, but like tissue that's meant to protect your body from it.

Simone Collins: Kind of like how clams make pearls.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah, they encapsulated all of this negative stuff. about their previous identity that then explodes when they detransition again and they need to deal with it.

Like nothing was ever really dealt with. It was just encapsulated and set aside and it's waiting there for them. Like a

Simone Collins: cyst in their body that's going to burst.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Which is sad. And so people can say, why do we look at all this? I think at [00:30:00] least Simone would have definitely transitioned. So I've got to look at my daughter's likely transitioning.

And I need to think of how do I build a system? Where, and I'm not saying I'm, transitioning. I just want to make sure daughters

Simone Collins: and not our sons would transition or feel gender dysmorphia in some way.

Malcolm Collins: I think that women and men transitioning now, if you look at the deleterious type of transitioning, they're doing it for different reasons and it plays to different things.

Simone Collins: And yeah, I guess the fact that I was an anorexic autistic, Adolescent probably doesn't work well in terms of genetic tendencies. Plus, I think our sons are so hyper masculine already that it would be weird. I don't think

Malcolm Collins: that really, a lot of people who transition actually do really fit their gender subtype before they do.

I think a lot of people so there's two groups that I think are deleterious transitioning groups. One is the women who feel love bombed and social pressured and everything like that. And that's the group I think our daughters might fall into because it's very good against very intelligent, autistic women.

Or it's very good at not [00:31:00] against, but like at convincing them when they're not actually trans individuals. Keep in mind, I said, I do believe that actual trans individuals exist. But with men, I think that there's another group that's really exploded within the trans movement. And these are what historically, like when I was really involved with the GSA and stuff like this, we saw some of these individuals and we just shamed them to no heaven because everybody knew what was up.

They were cis guys who were pretending to be trans to harass lesbian women. Um, And everybody knew what they were up to. Like they didn't try to transition really. They just use the identity to get into lesbian spaces or to get into other. And people can be like, come on, nobody's doing this really. And I'm like, Okay.

Or nobody was power is doing this really. Look up like

Alok Vaid Memon, right?

I recently saw, so if I keep thinking this person must be like a minority player in the gender identity movement. Is

Simone Collins: this someone's name?

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Alok Vaid [00:32:00] Memon. So recently a friend randomly, like a Facebook friend shared a video of his and was like, wow, I think he's one of the like deepest or she, or I don't know.

I think he's. They are one of the most and I do care about correctly gendering people, by the way. People should see this in this. I do care about it because they've gone through a lot of their culture. I don't want to hurt

Simone Collins: them.

Malcolm Collins: I don't want them to force people who aren't in that group. To if a Christian doesn't want to do it whatever, don't do it.

And I want the Christian to have the right to not do it. But I'm going to do it because I just don't want to hurt people's feelings. That's my culture. If I don't have a strong reason to hurt someone's feelings, I shouldn't be hurting their feelings. But anyway the, this individual on my Facebook, while I was being shared as like a good thinker in the space, And I thought that maybe they had been like popular at one point, but weren't still popular.

So the thing that they're famous for saying is quote, these days, the narrative is that freaky transgender people will come into your bathrooms and abuse innocent little [00:33:00] girls. There are no fairy tales and no princesses here. Little girls are also queer. Trans, kinky, deviant, kind, mean, beautiful, ugly, tremendous, and peculiar.

Your kids aren't as straight and narrow as you think this is, I think obviously to me, this reminds me of

I should have never shoved all those poor animals up my ass! Just do good! God, you people get it? I'm trying this kind of behavior should not be acceptable from a teacher! Yeah, Jesus Christ! But the museum tells us to

be tolerant! Tolerant, but not tolerant! Look, just because you have to tolerate something doesn't mean you have to approve of it. Tolerate means you're just putting up with it. You tolerate a crying child sitting next to you on the airplane, or you tolerate a bad cold.

It can still piss you off, Jesus tap dancing Christ! He's right. Our boys didn't hate homosexuals, they just hated the way this a*****e was acting.

And [00:34:00] this is a problem. You let enough a******s like this guy. I have the public stage for long enough. And people begin to start hating gay people more broadly because they begin to believe all gay people are like this, and this is uniquely a problem. Is that real normal queer people or gay people? , don't have this intense desire to parade themselves around in public doing these perverted things.

That's just a sex pass. , and so Eve you're an average person just trying to live your life. You're actually going to encounter whether it's on TV or in Netflix specials, their sex pest category, much more frequently, even if they're the minority of the community, which is why it's so important that the rest of the queer community. Absolutely demonized and villainized individuals like this and keep them from getting public stages. , very interestingly., I, after recording this episode, I found out that Alex made men. And in 20 front T4 heading Netflix comedy special. He is still being [00:35:00] put in front of the public eye. When he should be hard canceled, but there is just nothing you can do to get canceled on the left.

That, that seems to be. Unless it's being slightly right-wing in some way.

Malcolm Collins: This is a menace to the entire real LGBT community, like a real trans person who just wants to live their life does not want activists out there who aren't even trying to pass and sexualizing underage girls.

And their speeches, they, that is a menace to a real trans person who just wants to live their life because they're just born in the other body and they just want to transition and live that life.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It's like how we feel about people who say that they're pronatalists and then they talk about the great replacement theory and we're like, no whoa.

Not like I hate

Malcolm Collins: those people more than people who aren't pronatalists hate those people because they cause problems for our movement. Gay people, gay men, 45 percent of whom who are. Voted for Trump in the last election cycle by one poll, at least. I haven't found a strong argument against this.

Obviously they're not represented by this and [00:36:00] they get victimized and called out because they're part of the larger community that's allowing this. Lesbian women who are the ones being primarily victimized. You're not seeing this because you're not on the lesbian dating apps. But like lesbians reach out to each other on dating apps, like women reach out to men on dating apps.

So not much, but these individuals, like no social boundaries have realized they can use this identity for cover are extremely aggressive

Simone Collins: in

Malcolm Collins: these communities. And, keep in mind, they're larger, they're more muscular. One, I actually heard Lesbian woman and she would tell the story in two ways.

She's like a man photoshopped himself to look like a woman so that he could get me alone on a date. And she said, when people heard that they freaked out. And then I said, a trans woman photoshopped herself so that she could get me alone. And. Everyone was like, how could you even suggest that this is a problem?

And the fact that this social reality exists has allowed this group of, keep in mind when you were in high school, like the creepiest, most sexually aggressive guy who you ever saw, who had no friends and [00:37:00] otherwise everyone hated. Now he can use this identity as a cover. Of course those guys are going to do that.

Like when a lot of people are like, Oh, a guy like that wouldn't. pretend to be a trans woman just to further victimize. I think you think for a second, oh, you, oh yeah, that guy didn't care what anyone thought of him. He was just, a sex pest. And these sex pests who have taken over the trans identity, like nobody suffers more from this than gay men.

lesbian women, and real trans people. And I have a lot of sympathy for those individuals who are now being victimized because these individuals have realized sort of a social hack they could use to take over their movement.

Simone Collins: It's scary.

Malcolm Collins: And that's why I'm not afraid of our sons, because I don't think that many men are.

Who transition do it because of some sort of social contagion. I think it's because they realize that there's a social hack that they can use to their advantage. The bad kind. Now, I do think a number transitioning for real, like they're actually just born with the wrong brain. But with women, I think a lot of them are otherwise well intentioned and got [00:38:00] caught up in a social contagion.

But anyway now this might be way too spicy. We still haven't done the video with the AGAP or whatever guy. We'll eventually post that. Oh, we should.

Simone Collins: No. Yeah. I like him.

Malcolm Collins: Kind of boring interview. So it's one of the interviews I'm on the fence about. Cause he's too

Simone Collins: reasonable and people want crazy.

Malcolm Collins: I just didn't think he had a lot of new ideas to be honest. I think his core thing was shock. Um, Shock within the communities that he's engaged with, but the ideas I don't think are shocking to our audience. So I guess we'll see. A lot of them have heard these ideas before. But anyway, I absolutely love you.

Oh, and by the way, I should know for people who again might be like, Oh, this allot guy you might've seen him randomly among your friend group, but he's not popular. No by queer magazine, he was rated one of the top a hundred queer people of the year. Like he is, you absolutely a major influencer in the movement.

And I think that the way the youth movement used to be, it just needs to learn to have a little bit of criticality around sex pest men using this identity to exploit [00:39:00] women. Obviously, sex pests would do that. Like, why would anyone think differently? But they are always overly aggressive and cross boundaries and don't have any social sense and don't care what other people think of them.

If you give them a memetic hack of course it's going to spread within that community. And I do not think that they make up the majority. of the trans community at all today. But I will say that if you are a lesbian woman, that's the majority of interaction you're having with the trans community because they're aggressive.

They are out there interacting with people. They are not trying to just live their lives. And so there needs to be a bit of, I think, an inquisition within the LGBT community if the community, wants, I actually think that's like the number one thing that the LGBT community can do is find the ill actors within their community.

Because I don't think it's good if you allow outside groups to do that, which right now is what's being forced is, they're pushing it, but I've seen increasingly like very reasonable trans people recently. I might post on the screen here.

That is basically dedicated to doing this, it's a trans guy who's dedicated to doing this and I really appreciate his efforts.

To calling

Simone Collins: out people who [00:40:00] seem to be in the movement for exploitative reasons? Yeah. So there is a backlash forming. People are pushing back. Let's say, I would say that a lot of lesbians, maybe unfairly branded as TERFs have been fighting back for a while. I don't know if this is necessarily new.

They

Malcolm Collins: have, they've been getting beaten up in bars and then, it's so sad because I've heard these things on like the lesbian subreddit, where one woman was like, this is when I realized that the community had turned against me. Is when A couple trans women overheard another lesbian woman say that she didn't want to, like she wasn't even talking to them, that she didn't want to date trans women and they beat her up.

And that this was being cheered as like a positive thing in the lesbian subreddit. And then she realized, oh, everyone in this Reddit thread basically still is a sexually aggressive cis man pretending to be a lesbian, because who else, even a real trans person wouldn't be cheering that, right?

The only people who would be cheering that are sexually aggressive cis men pretending to be lesbians.

Simone Collins: Or [00:41:00] people who are just performatively. woke in a way where no matter what, if someone meets a certain classification, you have to be on their side. You cannot say anything in criticism of them.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And for this reason, I think that the woke movements greatest victim has been the real LGBT community.

Simone Collins: Yeah. No kidding. Like you said, they, they have been used the same way that hospitals have been used by Hamas, you just put them up like a shield. Yeah. And then use them to grow it's terrifying.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, wait, but by the way the Alok thing, just so people know how big he is, he walked for several fashion brands at New York Fashion Week including the Opening Ceremony and Studio 189 and Chromat. Oh, and Harry's in Polaroid Eyewear. Polaroid Eyewear! And he's appeared in editorials in Vogue Italy, Bust Magazine, Wussy Magazine, and Paper [00:42:00] Magazine. So I'm not talking about a fringe. Anyway. Love you to death, Simone. And I really am excited to see the LGBT community beginning to clean itself up. And recently I was asked by someone and I think right now, given what the urban monoculture is doing by promoting these sexually aggressive cis men as transgender people and then protecting them gay rights now is fundamentally a right wing issue because there's the only group that has a real sustainable plan for gay rights.

And they're the only group with a sizable mass that has a real sustainable plan for gay rights. And I, again, I have to point out Trump was the first president Ever elected in the United States who, when he was elected, supported gay marriage, Obama,

Simone Collins: Obama didn't get elected with that stance, right?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

I don't think he ever like really truly held it. I think that he's actually much more conservative on gay stuff than people think. And I think Trump is much more progressive on gay stuff than people think because he, he was a New York liberal for like how many decades, of course he didn't [00:43:00] care.

And this is reflected in Trump, ensuring that in his 2024 election cycle, that marriage in the orient Z platform itself is not defined as between a man and a woman. So to those Republicans who I knew, um, you know, we'd get a few people in our comments who are like, well, blah, blah, blah. You know, it's not real marriage. And it's like, okay. Even if I agree with you on that point, it doesn't affect my marriage, that they are getting married. And even if I believe it's a sin.

That doesn't mean that my marriage is without sin. I drink, for example, that's a sin. I play video games. That's a sin.

Are you living a marriage without sin?

But you now represent even the minority. Among Republican voters. You know, you, you, you, you act like I am the extreme progressive among the Republican voters. When my position is actually normative among the Republican base. Now you are the extremists [00:44:00] who are fighting for a position that could not even win.

If the entire American electorate was just made up of Republicans.

All you are doing by getting this type of language in two bills and putting it out there for the public to hear. Is to convince the LGBT community. Of. What the left wants them to believe, but what is not true? Which is that Republicans are out to get them.

Literally you do more to hurt the party's chance of election.

And the chance of getting our legislation passed, then your average Democrat does.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, love you to death, Simone. And you are an amazing woman.

Simone Collins: You're perfect. I love you so much.

Malcolm Collins: And

Simone Collins: there, I've been looking forward to this all day.

Oh my! And keep I got [00:45:00] it! You got it? Yeah! Good! I got my pear! Octavian, are you going to get the corn? I got my corn! You got your big one first! Here you go, Tayden. Oh, thanks, buddy. Do you like it when food comes on a train? Yeah. I love it. Let's get in another. Washing machine is coming to you. You get that, okay?

Oh, yeah, I can't eat this. Aw. Well, then, take more. Two ones. And

I have one. I have this one for you. No! You got me. I'm so tired. Octavian, you guys have to eat it, okay? You gotta eat it. It's not the same food. Octavian, you also need to eat it, okay? [00:46:00] Oh, who's gonna get the broccoli? Um, Tayden certainly doesn't want any more food like this. Only pear. It's okay, Octavian. You take the food that you're gonna eat, okay?

You don't want food? Um, um, I want to eat broccoli! And carrots! That's for chickens and this is for me. Okay? I want my broccoli.