Thank you so much, Sophie. Thank you for your your constellation

of invitations. Yeah, I don't want to give anyone like didactic advice like prescriptive advice. It's more their doors that are open and there are many doors open.

Yeah, what I love about you is your your ability to open yourself interstitially to science, to poetry, to the microbeings in your environment, and your curiosity and your devotion to being a humble journey with all of us. And so your invitation through your writing for me is a rewilding of leadership. And I don't even like the word leadership, but it's a rewilding to me of actually unlearning the ways we thought that we need to lead our social change making lead in our communities solve the problems in this moment of time. And so thank you so much for bringing your resilience and your hope that the joy that we experience and caring for each other is what's going to hold us in this new mycelial network for whatever comes.

Thank you so much, Jennifer. And I'm glad this is the beginning of a conversation that I hope continues for a long time.

Yeah, thank you so much, Sophie. So here's the essence of what I'm taking from this conversation with Sophie. What happens if we move away from this idea that we need to optimize our life? Evolution and new ways of doing things don't just come from getting better and excelling at one thing. It's like the opposite of the hero's journey. It's about fusion. What happens interstitially in between each other? It comes from interruptions that emerge from being incorrect. Sophie's invitation and writing for me help us compost an old and dominating idea of leadership. Where the primacy of the individual expressed in this linear story of the hero's journey is dead. Instead, I feel when we bring our curiosity to what happens in between us or when we get things wrong, something else becomes possible. And that's this world of kinship, a practice of kinship, over kingship. Sophie reminds us that composting old ideas is based on addition, not subtraction. And I feel like that's also really important because sometimes we need some of those forms of leadership in certain circumstances, but not as the main approach to solving the kinds of problems that are on our doorstep. Thanks for being with me today. If you know somebody who would appreciate this conversation, please share this episode with them. We're weaving a web based on kinship, not on kingship, over here on Tension of Emergence. And I feel like we're building a community and a practice at the speed of one heart opening conversation at a time. To learn more about Sophie's work, writing and online courses, you can find resources and links from this episode in the show notes. To stay in touch with me and to learn more about my writing, coaching practice and offerings, you can sign up for my newsletter at www.sparkcoaching.ca backslash evolve subscribe. And before we close, I want to let you know that there's something cool in season two. After each of these deeper conversations, which are released on Tuesdays, I'll be offering a complimentary micro episode that will be released on Fridays. There are less than five minutes and are intended to reach the interstitial space between the deep dive that we've had and practice in your own life. I consider there's a dance between the deeper conversations and then an offering of a practice so that by the end of this season, you'll have a bundle of new practices to play an experiment with some that will nourish you deeply others that will spark your curiosity and that you can save them or share your favorites. So that's all for now. Thank you for being here. I'm Jennifer England. Thanks for listening.