The universe loves making things complicated. From minerals and microbes to languages and societies, complexity keeps showing up — but why? Astrobiologist Mike Wong and mineralogist Bob Hazen think we’re missing a law of nature to explain this phenomenon. Hakeem sits down with them to understand – and kick the tires on – their bold new idea: what they call a Law of Increasing Functional Information. They break down how it works, why it matters, and how it could reshape our understanding of everything from life to language to the universe itself.
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Guest Bios:
Robert Hazen is a mineralogist and astrobiologist at Carnegie Science and George Mason University. His pioneering research explores the origins of life and the evolving diversity of minerals on Earth. A prolific author and public communicator, Hazen has written widely on science, complexity, and the deep connections between the physical and biological worlds.
Mike Wong is an astrobiologist and planetary scientist at Carnegie Science whose work focuses on how life begins and evolves on worlds like our own. He is also a science communicator, hosting the podcast Strange New Worlds, where he brings complex cosmic ideas to broad audiences. Wong’s research and outreach bridge cutting-edge science with big-picture questions about life in the universe.
Their new book Time's Second Arrow: Evolution, Order, and a New Law of Nature will be available in February 2026.
Timestamps
(00:00:00) Introduction
(00:05:28) Laying Out the "Law of Increasing Functional Information"
(00:22:50) Functional Information: Explained
(00:30:17) What is Selection? Discussing the Law
(00:51:34) Testing the New Law
(01:11:24) Credits
