Using AI Internally and Carefully in Product

Josh Ho is the Founder and CEO of Referral Rock, a bootstrapped referral marketing platform serving SMBs that rely on multi-step, relationship-driven sales. Starting in 2015 as a solo developer consulting on the side, Josh built the first version himself, validated demand quickly, and landed early customers by doing demos and hands-on support.

Referral Rock has grown to roughly 500 customers, 20 team members, and about $3M in annual revenue. The company scaled through strong inbound SEO, founder-led sales, and a high-touch onboarding model for B2B businesses that value referrals. Over the years, the product expanded too broadly, creating UX and complexity challenges that later required a deliberate refocusing on core use cases.

Today, Referral Rock is profitable, founder-owned, and steady at its current revenue plateau as Josh rethinks pricing, packaging, product simplicity, and ICP focus. He shares practical lessons on avoiding over-complexity, hiring from what you've already figured out, returning to first principles, and treating plateaus as puzzles to solve rather than signs of failure.

Key Takeaways

• Charge Early, Not Late – His first startup delayed monetization; Referral Rock asked for payment within days of launching an MVP.
• Pricing For Segments– Good-better-best failed for SMBs with wildly different referral economics; switching to two specific lanes solved misalignment.
• Do the Job First – Hiring worked only after Josh personally figured out support, sales, or marketing enough to define the role clearly.
• Plateaus Aren't Failure – Post-COVID shifts and SEO changes slowed growth, but Josh treats plateaus as system puzzles, not existential threats.
• Profit Equals Freedom – With no investors and steady profitability, he optimizes for enjoyable work, long-term optionality, and building at his own pace.

Quote from Josh Ho, Founder and CEO of Referral Rock

"For me, a plateau or a pivot is a puzzle to be solved. Any time you try to build something, you hope to just keep hitting accelerators and different serendipitously find those things. But I've learned through my life, the most part, there are things that work only for a certain duration, right.

"For me, it comes back to how I think about the business and. my innate goals for the business which, are different from most founders. When I'm talking to another founder is, they'll ask me what my exit strategy is. And my answer is usually, Well, I don't really have one. That's not how I think about the business. It's a very clear.

"I enjoy my work and that's my North Star. Am I having fun? Do I enjoy this work? And I also continuously reinvent myself and my role to fit those changes.. There might be a job I had to do that I don't enjoy, but then I'll do that until it's no longer like the limiting step and then hire someone to backfill for myself."

Links

• Josh Ho on LinkedIn
• Referra lRock on LinkedIn
• Referral Rock website

This podcast is sponsored by Designli, a digital product studio that helps entrepreneurs and startups turn their software ideas into reality. From strategy and design to full-scale development, Designli guides you through every step of building custom web and mobile apps. Learn more at designli.co/practical.

The Practical Founders Podcast

Tune into the Practical Founders Podcast for weekly in-depth interviews with founders who have built valuable software companies without big funding. Subscribe to the Practical Founders Podcast using your favorite podcast app or view on our YouTube channel.

Get the weekly Practical Founders newsletter and podcast updates at practicalfounders.com.

Practical Founders CEO Peer Groups

Be part of a committed and confidential group of practical founders creating valuable software companies without big VC funding. A Practical Founders Peer Group is a committed and confidential group of founders/CEOs who want to help you succeed on your terms. Each Practical Founders Peer Group is personally curated and moderated by Greg Head.