So within the last year, i think there has been a bit of a break through for you in terms of speaking publicly and explicitly from this generator frame. You know, last june, on your undivide attention, we had, for the first time, daniel schmaen berger in dialogue with you, tristan. And so i just want to ask you, how has that felt for you to explicitly inhabit this generator frame in public?

Ye em, why? When you understand those generator functions, that there's a growth imperative tied to abstraction, action, depletion and pollution, it really does create this split. And reason i want to double down on this feeling of alienation or or isolation, is because it may be something that you listeners out there might might be feeling listening to this podcastom n, i deftly know, have heard from people who who say, you know, wow, like this pocketis so informative. Its so, so nice, so great. But you know, then i feel like alone, because then i'm understanding these things about the world that other people around me don't understand. And one of the reasons we wanted to bring these worlds together is, first, i think we do need more community, right? People need understand that other people feel this too, and understand this too, u and that walking worried sense that something's not right does have ground. Its. Our mammalian system is not lying to you. But it's not that it's a petifile cuanon elite that's kind of running the world, and that's the big crisis that we're facing. Or it's not that it's just one political party is taking power. It's not that hay ther's just these one or two evil oil company executives who aren't doing the right thing. Because if one oil company didn't do hat, the other one would. Again, it's that we're caught in these races that produce these negative outcomes the runaway systems beneath. And so step any to your question about, how does it feel getting to kind of go out publicly and talk about these things? It feels really, really good and important to me, because these have been two parts of my own identity and my own psychology that i've been holding and theye felt separate for too long, and it hurts to hold them separately. And you know, that won't go away, because the world does still perceive technology as just an issue. How do we deal with fate? What facebook did yesterday, youknow, they changed their policy on x or adamissary from instagram testified to congress about wy. What do you think, microphone in your face? Oukno, lic you're commenting on these narrow a moments are choices or design events, instead of how these really, these systems are operating. And i i do feel a lot better communicating more from these generator functions. And we're hoping, with this podcast also, to take you listeners out there along with us for this ride, because that's what it's going to take to address these problems. They're not separate issues. They're connected by a these fundamental runaway systems that we mentioned earlier, like

denelometos framework, there are 12 leverage points in a system, going from constraints and stocks and floes at number 12, although up to transcending paradimes at number one. And it's not like you just then focus on paradigmatic change. You have to do all of them, from times and delays to changing the incentives of the system to the stalks and he floes. M and so i think is a way in which if we all, as individuals and communities and societies, share a similar diagnosis, if we can articulate the problem, then we naturally, in a desentialized way, all start pushing in the same direction. And when we all push in the same direction, ike no system can stand up to that. And it's just the acknowledgment that there is room in here for for hope.