At Amazon there were a bunch of vp's but the inner circle was very product tech centric and then a von who could speak to operations which obviously was super important we talked about a lot. At Popak, almost all those meetings talking about either product growth or disundegree operations. When you have well-functioning hr and legal and finance and all these support functions to build a big business it's probably not what you want to spend like strategic hours of time debating. Keep that team super small and focused on product and the customer and tech and and growth is really productive how you hired people.

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