Ren: Maybe there's a world in which we have two different types of risk free rates. One is if the nominated risk free rate and one is US dollars denominated Risk Free Rate. Dan: I think it's going to take a lot of time before people actually accept a crypto-denominated asset as a risk free rate. And so moving into the back half of the show, I want to talk about some 2023 predictions that our team has for what we expect to see in DeFi or all across the crypto ecosystem.

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