So he asked about symbolism. What's the role of symbolism? Because obviously symbolism plays a key role. It's a great question. I think you're planting this question for us. I think it's a great question. So in the early church at the Desert Fathers, there became this issue of we don't have water to baptize people with. And there was a letter sent out, well what do we do? We don't have any water, we don't have any extra water. And they said, use sand. Just pour sand over them, right? So that would be an improvisation, that is an extreme situation. It's not the way you want it to be, but it's a way that it works in that situation. What prevents me from being baptized? No water, okay, well use sand. But here's why I don't think symbol it. So if you know the history of the Christian Church, Christians have fought over the idea of what the symbols mean, right? Split the...sorry. You know, the Protestants split on this several various ways from the Catholics, trans-substantiation, consubstantiation. And I just wanna say, when you look across scripture, symbols don't seem to be the center of what's going on with rituals. Symbols have some meaning built in there, but here's the problem, is we try to hold the bread and the wine in our hand, I'm just using communion as an easy example here, and we look at it and we think, like, okay, what is this, what's going on here, what does this mean by looking at the things in our hands? And I think that might detract us from what's going on in the ritual. And here's why. Anybody seen Karate Kid? The movie? Karate? Okay. I'll give you a very short synopsis of one scene. There's a guy, Mr. Miyagi, who knows Karate very well. He's from Okinawa, Pat Morita. And there's a kid, Daniel's son, who lives in his apartment complex. He sees that Mr. Miyagi is a karate expert. He's getting beat up at school. He goes to Mr. Miyagi and says, will you teach me karate? Karate kid. So Mr. Miyagi says, come over to my house. He has this other house. He says, come over here and I'll teach you karate. And so he comes over one morning, Mr. Miyagi comes out with a bucket and a rag, and he says, yeah, you know it. He says, wash all, he has like a dozen cars. Wash all of these cars. Right hand circle, left hand circle, and then you're going to, and once you're done washing, you're going to wax them. Wax on, wax off. Have you, anybody heard this wax, I can't do this with my left hand. Wax on, wax off. And he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, and he's like, no, no, no, don't ask me questions. Just do it, right? So he does it, comes back the next day, he's exhausted, you know? He's like, all right, we're gonna paint the fence. Up, down, breathe in through nose, out through mouth, right? And he goes through four different chores, onerous chores, like he's got him slave labor, right? He's sanding the deck, he's painting the house side to side, up and down, breathing through nose, out through mouth. And then finally, the fourth or fifth day, Daniel's son snaps. And he's like, I'm not doing any of this. You're just getting free labor out of me. This is a big trick, right? And then he's like, no, no, no, Danielson, come here. And he says, show me, you know, paint the fence. And, you know, and he does it. And, and, sorry, he says, show me paint the fence. And then Mr. Miyagi starts punching him. And then he realizes all of a sudden that the movements that he's been burning into his body are actually karate moves. And then Mr. Miyagi throws a bunch of punches and kicks and he's able to defend them all. That's Hollywood. So it's a little fantastical. But here's the trick. He thought he could decode the mystery of learning karate by seeing all of the some kind of symbols of kicks and punches. And there's a Jewish philosopher named Martin Buber who says, all journeys have a secret destination of which the traveler is unaware. So Daniel was not aware that he was actually learning karate when he was sanding decks and waxing cars. I'm a college professor. Everything I do is ritual. I ask them to ritually read things strategically to write in this really funny academic way that's not so funny to them. I ask them to sit and listen, to interact, ask questions. I ask them to do all why are we doing this? This doesn't seem to do anything. I know why we're doing this. I know there's 17 reasons we're doing this one exercise. But I understand that you can't tell, you're 18. You haven't been around, you haven't been teaching for 15 years, why would you know? Why would you presume that you could walk into a classroom and just see through all of this and understand it all just by looking at it? It's kind of naive when you think about how I thought that when I was in college too. We all complained about assignments that we couldn't figure out. So I think if you get stuck on the symbolism, that this is all just symbolic actions that's encoded, and you just need the decoder ring, then you miss the very point of doing the ritual. I think once you learn the ritual, like once Daniel Sun knows Karate and understands it, he can look back and go, ah, I now see how side to side painting, I see how that built this particular move into him. But to think that you can understand in advance just by thinking it through and symbolically decoding it, I think here would be the problem. We bring the same interpretation of parables, the way we interpret parables. So Jesus says, the man who wanted to build a tower and didn't consider the cost, right, it's a little parable. It's a fictional story, he told. There's no man. It's not a real tower. It's not, right? It's just a little fictional story. But what he's trying to get you to do is say, okay, there's man in the story and then there's a man in real life. There's something like a tower that's expensive and costly and hard to do in the story and there's something in real life that's expensive, costly and hard to do. And all you're trying to do is decode it. So, okay, the man, that's me. The tower that's expensive and costly, that's the life of following Christ. And you need to consider whether you want to do that ahead of time, right? That's how you interpret a parable. I think people take that key of interpretation and they try to work it out in rituals. And they say, this happens all the time in Leviticus with scholars. They go, okay, the blood means and laying on your hand is passing the sins. And they try to just symbolically encode it. And I'm just not convinced that that's what's going on there. That if it's more like wax on, wax off, then you learn what God is trying to show you by doing the thing he's telling you to do. Let me give you one simple example and then we can probably need to wrap it up here. Who here learned your times table when you're in a primary school? Right? A multiplication times table, right? Can I hear how, real question, how did you learn them? Repetition, right? Did anybody learn them by song? You memorize a song? My kids did it by song. We had minigraph sheets where they just gave you one every day and you got two minutes and you just brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr go through, right? And after weeks and weeks of doing that, now when I was in second grade, I could not have told if you asked me, Drew, why are you doing this every day for week after week after week? I would have just said because we need to learn times, I wouldn't have known why, right? I wouldn't have known that in eighth grade, or S2, that I actually needed to know these things by rote in order to do algebra, because I'm getting hung up on the basic arithmetic, then I can't even think about the algebra problem that I need to be doing, right? That it's actually opening a future door for me that I couldn't have ever anticipated, right? I'm doing all, when I teach Hebrew Bible, in the first couple weeks, I'm doing all kinds of things that I know we're gonna need in the last couple of weeks.