Humility, Testing Experiences, and Discernment

What happens when the power of the Holy Spirit collides with the chaos of American politics? Join Joshua Lewis as he sits down with historian Molly Worthen to explore her book Spellbound, which traces the fascinating and often controversial story of charisma—both spiritual and political—from Puritan prophets to modern-day leaders like Donald Trump.

We explore the tension between institutional authority and personal revelation that has defined American Christianity and culture for centuries. Discover how figures like Anne Hutchinson challenged Puritan ministers by claiming direct assurance from the Holy Spirit, how George Whitefield revolutionized preaching with theatrical emotion, and how Joseph Smith blended enlightenment rationalism with spiritual experience to birth Mormonism.

Professor Worthen, a historian at UNC Chapel Hill, reveals how charismatic leaders aren't always the charming orators we imagine—instead, they're polarizing storytellers who invite followers into transcendent narratives that give suffering and struggle cosmic significance. We explore the dangerous line between prophetic truth and spiritual manipulation, examining everyone from radical Quaker Benjamin Lay to Martin Luther King Jr., and asking the crucial question: how do we test the spirits in an age of radical individualism?

Whether you're fascinated by church history, concerned about discernment in charismatic movements, or trying to understand the spiritual undercurrents shaping our political moment, this episode offers essential insights into how divine power—or the claim to it—has shaped the American experiment.

0:00 – Introduction
0:46 – Molly's background and ministry
4:49 – Defining charisma
20:11 – Anne Hutchinson & Puritan Massachusetts
30:00 – Donna Beatrice & the Congo rebellion
36:25 – George Fox & the Quaker movement
44:01 – George Whitefield & emotional preaching
50:28 – Charisma & American individualism
54:05 – Joseph Smith & the Mormon church
1:00:14 – Closing thoughts on charisma & discernment

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