Then

i'll double down, not double click, but double down a couple of the things youve said, because i feel so strongly about them as well. And one of them is democratic access to data. Like, one of my best books i've read in the last few years is a book of sup or forcasting by philip telorne. And where, you know, one of the things he points out is how often experts get predictions wrong. T there is much data that shows that all these experts with their fancied degrees and their ivy league school professorships will go on teavy. They'll make predictions will be wrong while it is actually, you know, there are forecasting competitions, and the kind of people who really do well in them are just self taught people who are sceptical about everything and open to changing their minds. And my sense is that, you know, if every data set is available to every then somebody from god knows where, without a shred of privilege, yes, can just access it on the internet, apply her own brain. And as you said, so well, make the data sing yo see something that others can't see because they're coming at it differently, while the whole academic world will come at it from one lent, exactly. And

you know, ammat, i think the reason that's so powerful is because i once foolishly, i had gone to a seminar because, youo, i'm, of course, imsucanerd, and i'm obsessed with economist. So i went to e seminar that amartesen was doing. I ss the thing the last time. He was probably in delly. And i was at the habitat centre, and sen a large audience. And then i was opened up to questions. Charmela tagore was there, which was very exciting for me. It wase, economics means bolly would have so, so exciting.

Anywor even bolly would shot t e rit as wi, i on' do bing leme ono. That too good for vollues e, noomission. This is your, this is your aracoming an

vey seson, she's both, but ever, she's marvellous. But, but what i was going to say is that, so, i remember, i asked him, and i asked him, i said, do you think that our cts have just changed the incentive for students in ecademic economics? And, you know, he did. He said, yes, because, because now, and that was our cetes a whilego. There was almostmis must be five, seven years ago, m longer than that. And now, you know, there are different trends, and that's fine. I mean, i don't want anyone listening to us to think that. I certainly don't think that there's anything wrong with being on trend within academia, because there might be very useful reasons why. You know, certain models and modes of investigation are being privileged in certain places, and we will find learned lots of very useful things from them. I think the r c t movement also teaches us that there's something very useful there. And then there are things you have to take with its caviats as well, which is true for everything. But while that world can exist and do its thing and play its game and the circle jerk and all of that that you mentioned so eloquently, there need to be other worlds as well. And those have to be created by peope. I don't know who, and i don't know where. I mean, if sometime, you know, i leave the bank, these are the kinds of things that i think i'm really interested in trying to do. I know that, i think tanks are thinking about these kinds of issues as well. So to me, i think the, the, the task is not to get lost in what the academic world is doing at all. I think, let it do what it's doing, and that, i think there will be value there. Thet that's fine minutes. I'm not in judgment of that. I think it's great. And if people play the game of those incentives, i understand that as well, because people's livelihoods oftend are also on the line. I mean, you have to sort of do certain kinds of things to then get a certain job, and then you can do different, more, perhaps open ended work. But people like me who have chosen not to go down the path of, i don't have the talent or the tenacity to finish a phd. In economics. I would never be able to do it the way it is structured and done. I have different talents and i have a different of tenacity. And then you have to sort of think about, where are the spaces where i can then apply that? And i think that's where my energies will be better served. And i think the the ones is now on all of us who recognize that there's something wrong with the way, when we're not wrong, but there's a mismatch between the kind of ac economics that ecademia is producing and generating and deeming legitimate. And we know what we call the mo ground realities, you know, the real world that we would like to sort of apply and marry with this kind of work. And i think ones is now on us completely to try and create that. It would require people who'll finance it. It'll require people who'll actually change their mental models. The brahmanism that i was telling you about. You'll have to stop thinking that only you know some one with a doctride degree, has something fancy to say. Any one can have actually, anything fancy to say. And one of the things i shol really enjoy it when writing the book, and even books that ive loved reading, is everyone has a theory on life, and everyone is actually a philosopher. I really believe this. And i think in the book, you find that all the women, i mean, when the're talking about sharoch, in a way, what are they doing? They're not actually talking about him. Nobody really knows him. They are constructing him based on some social philosophy that they have about how the world works, what their sort of knowledge systems are, what they're drawing on, what they think of the way the world is structured. And i think it is now it's completely up to us to try and feed a very different kind of eco system. And i'd rather just not pay more attention there. I've abandoned with this book, i've hundred % abandon the idea that, you know, formal academi, specially academic economists, are going to suddenly, you know, listen to the things i have to say. Never, i mean, i sort of know, i know. And i think this goes back to the self awareness. That you were talking about. I know exactly the way people perceive different people and knowledge claims and so on. And i'm not interested in that game. I think i'm interested in trying to see if we can cultivate a very different space. And that's the space that id like to operate in.