Sometimes there's this dynamic that emerges is described classically as pursuer distancer. Do you see a kind of general upward trajectory associated with them their life? Were theyr going? Are they changing, or have they been stagnant for the last 20 years? Are they flexible? Are they open to ideas? I said something in an episode a little while ago about this idea that you're getting into a relationship, not with a person, but with a process.

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