At the beginning of 2024, mass layoffs decimated newsrooms, leading some pundits to proclaim that the media industry was facing an "extinction-level event." But there are bright spots despite the uncertainty, starting with a pair of video journalists and longtime friends: Cleo Abram and Johnny Harris.

We called up the duo to invite you into one of their conversations — on what it means to go "independent," the potential of creator-led media businesses, and Johnny's love for...moss.

This "Creators on Creators" conversation appears in Volume 2 of The Publish Press Newspaper, a full-color, 28-page print zine we're dropping on June 28th.