Henry: I think the growing object oriented software guided by tests is also one key technique that is mentioned in the book. Steve Freeman, the author of the book was giving a keynote and so he gave the keynote and I was then giving a present in my paper and in my paper I was citing him a lot. At some point Steve looked at me, you know, for like because it was 10th time I said his name on my presentation and then I said I'm sorry I just like her book very much. And we became friends right and when I moved to Europe, then we were closer to each other and then Steve started to teach one guest lecture every year in my course in delve

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