The Cultural Turn Inside and Outside of Marxism

i think what you just described there Kyle is probably closer to the winery and sort of perspective on things than i am. There's this kind of what's the thing where it's like oh the the medium is the message actually the thing i was trying to get but for wiener it's actually quite the opposite that the message is the medium through which life has lived. We have a weird perceptual bias towards identifying objects so we identify like the communication as if it was an object  but for wienerit's the behavior and the change in behavior is the is the real show and this information is a residue that's kind of left behind or a residue that seems to slip off of things