On this episode, we talk with two of Ellen's coworkers and the Games Agency, Jamaal Sawyer-Dymski & Greg Borreson. They talk about their career paths, from their time as young nerds, to working in very different areas of computer sciences and programming, to the fact that saying "Enhance" doesn't actually help with anything CSI style, to working with your nice host, Ellen.

Ellen has some audio problems (they get better), Stephen gets called out, and Mark calls it in from home (because Dale exposed him to Covid). 

Spoilers:

• Dale and Mark are recovering (slowly) from Covid. 
• It turns out that the secret to getting into game development is showing up to a music festival and harassing your roommate's boyfriend. Who knew?