I talk to Andy from School of Grappling and Greg Souders from Standard Jiu-Jitsu about their perspectives on the ecological approach to teaching grappling. We explore the theoretical foundations and practical applications of this method, discussing key concepts like experience, perception, consciousness, and intentionality. Andy shares insights on the phenomenological perspective and subjective experience, while Greg delves into ecological dynamics and the environment's role in shaping behaviour. The conversation also touches on self-directed learning, explicit instruction, observation and imitation, and the relationship between form and function in techniques. This thought-provoking discussion highlights the importance of creating holistic, adaptable learning environments that foster critical thinking and problem-solving in martial arts training.