Podcast Episode 275 - Brain Science

Jocelyn Brady is our guest for the 292nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Jocelyn is a brain and story coach who helps her clients create more out of their lives. She is a former copywriter whose fascination with neuroscience led her down a new path. Here’s how the conversation goes: Pig brains – How the heck did they encourage Jocelyn to go down a path of neuroscience? How tragic events can change the direction of our lives and careers. How Jocelyn built her copywriting business and agency by accident and worked with big time clients like Nokia, SunTrust, and Prudential. How persistence is key to building a successful business and why you should think of your business as an experiment. Making a more interesting ‘about’ page and how to get people curious. Is everyone a natural storyteller? Jocelyn’s S.T.O.R.Y framework and how you can apply it to your own stories. Where do most copywriters mess up when telling stories? The key to driving the sale versus justifying a purchase. What are B.S., and how can we Making big pivots in business – How can we effectively make it happen? When it may be a good idea to pivot your business. The #1 struggle in pivoting. Books and resources Jocelyn recommends to start your own brain journey. How to incorporate more play into our lives, and why it’s so important for our livelihoods. Deathbed you – What does that mean and why is it important to Jocelyn’s messaging? How Jocelyn attracts people into her programs – Going from tangible deliverables to intangible results. Take an introspective look at your brain and check out this episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Think Tank Copywriting Income Survey Kira’s website Rob’s website Jocelyn's website Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg Words Can Change Your Brain by Andrew Newberg The Brain That Changes Itself by Norman Doidge Huberman Lab Podcast  Play By Stuart Brown  The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Free month of Brain.FM   Full Transcript: Rob Marsh:  It doesn't matter if you write copy or content or whether you work on marketing strategy or sales. Pretty much whatever we do as writers depends on understanding human behavior and the way people think. The more we know, the better we can communicate. And our guest for today's episode of The Copywriter Club podcast is a former copywriter and current brain coach Jocelyn Brady. She stopped by to help us understand how the brain works, what it takes to create curiosity to tell stories, and how you can keep your reader engaged long enough to deliver your message. Everyone who communicates as part of the work that they do will benefit from listening to what Jocelyn has to share in this episode. Kira Hug:  A quick PSA, The Copywriter Think Tank price tag will increase this June. So if you have any interest in joining us inside this mastermind, don't wait; apply today. We are so excited to introduce some of our newest members in the Think Tank to the entire crew this June during our two-day virtual retreat on June 9th and 10th. It's coming up fast, so again, if you've had any interest in the Think Tank, now is the time to apply. Head over to copywriterthinktank.com to learn more. Rob Marsh:  All right. Let's get to our interview with Jocelyn. Jocelyn Brady:  This is a long circuitous journey, I think. But I'll say that the first time I was really that my brain went, "Wow, what brains can do," was... Well, the first time I held a brain was in grade school when we were dissecting a fetal pig, and I really needed to see its brain. That was not part of the assignment. We were just looking at its organs. And I was like, "But that's crazy. We're not seeing the part that powers all the parts." So I was the sole student there with my hacksaw, just determined to see this thing's brain. That stuck with me. And then later, a couple of decades later, my dad had a stroke and he had lost his ability to speak. And I was just like, "What? This guy, who's this brilliant storyteller and poet and a lyricist and hilarious, and would always say things like, 'I'll tell you when you're older,' when he got to the really juicy part of stories." And I'm like, "But I need to know this ends." So when that happened, I really wanted to know what is going on in his brain and what's possible. And that's how I learned about neuroplasticity. The brain is magical. I like to call it a magical asset, which we can get to. But the fact that even a physically damaged brain can learn to rewire or create new connections. So my dad got his ability to speak back and to tell dad jokes and to still say, "I'll tell you when you're older." I'm pushing 40 now. So I don't know how old I have to be to get to the good parts, but… So these are like backstory context. It wasn't until 2016 that I got my... I enrolled in the NeuroLeadership program for brain coaching. Sometimes they call it results-based coaching. And I thought about going back to school to become a neuroscientist. But at this point, I was running my copywriting business. It was like brain voice consultancy, running that full-time. I had gotten my MFA in creative nonfiction writing, and I was like, "I'm not going back to school again right after this." So I got this into this program, which was great, because it was just focused on the neuroscience and neurological underpinnings of the language we use and how we get into more towards-states or away-states and just giving... It gave me a lexicon to talk about things that were fascinating to me. Because while I was training people to tell stories and tell their brand stories and adoptive brand voice and have personality and their writing, I was way more interested in, like, but what's going on in your brains and how are you guys communicating and getting along? So that's when I jumped into it, brain coaching. Rob Marsh:  I love that. And I kind of would love to go back and talk a little bit about your experience with copywriting, the agency that you built before we go all the way into what you've learned on brains. And clearly, they're linked really tightly. But yeah, tell us just a little bit about the kinds of brands that you were working with and how you were applying what you knew at that time about this whole-brain neurology thing to tell their stories. Jocelyn Brady:  Yeah. So I had gotten into... So I started in 2008 and at that time, had no plans. Like no, I was just... I'm going to earn enough to eat a sandwich and pay the bills, like an accidental business owner, or entrepreneur type. So that led into... my first big client was Nokia when they were a thing. And they were coming out with these new products. Then the iPhone's like, "Hi, I'm here." So that was an interesting time. And then a lot of tech companies. So I worked with Microsoft and it started with writing case studies and interviewing people all over the world to say, "Well, what do you love about Office 365?" Or whatever it was at the time. I loved the interviewing and then it just kept growing and building. Suddenly, I had more work than I could handle. So I realized I needed to hire people. So, bookkeeper, that's a good idea, and other copywriters and consultants and strategists. And then we were creating the brand voice that became really close with a couple of people who ultimately became CMOs, chief marketing officers. So they're like, "Hey, we trust you. You're great. You know how to do all this stuff. So just create our brand voice, go interview all the people, go do all the research and then go train all our people on how to do it." So that was with... God, who was that at the time? SunTrust who turned into Truist to some banking clients, financial clients, couple of startups, and currently also consulting with Prudential. So it's like these industries and companies I never thought I would get involved in and here we are. Kira Hug:  So for a copywriter listening, you've had great success working with these big-name clients during your copywriting career. What do you think you did differently or did really well that paid off during that time and that we could pull into our businesses today? Jocelyn Brady:  I was listening to your episode. Is his name Dan? The Brain.fm episode is fascinating. Rob Marsh:  Yeah. Kira Hug:  Yes. Jocelyn Brady:  Oh, that's great. And he has such a good point, which is don't take... If you're not asking “it’s a no” and don't stop until you hear a clear no, I think that is just the best advice. You keep trying. You keep pestering people and reaching out to people that you really want to work with and think of... I mean, I would just blind-pitch people. I was like, "They sound fun to work with." And I would think of... I would research them and then find, "Oh, this guy used to run a shave ice shop. I'm going to make a joke about shave ice and ice shave. And I grew up in Hawaii and he's going to get it." And that was it. So it's like, what is something that's going to make him want to open that email because the subject line is interesting enough, right? It's like all the practices that we know in copywriting. And then, what's that first line that's going to make him smile, what's going to make him want to read more, what's going to make him crack up in his seat and say, "I need to talk to this gal." So I think that is something. Just see how you can make things fun, especially if they're scary and just keep trying. Think of it as all a big experiment. Rob Marsh:  So I would love to get your thoughts on stories and what's going on in the brain. And it's funny because as I was going through your website, especially your about page, you've got one of the most intriguing about pages I've ever seen. And it's like screen after screen of curiosity and wait a second, “I got to pay attention”.