Abdul and Katelyn contend with a devastating week at HHS, including:

• The loss of 20,000 workers
• A massive restructuring at HHS
• Senior leaders leaving the ranks
• The addition of a discredited vaccine skeptic to analyze future data on the MMR vaccine

Then Abdul interviews Nat Kendall-Taylor and Julie Sweetland from the Frameworks Institute about their research on American attitudes around vaccine hesitancy, and how to frame productive public health conversations.

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