I loved your advice for maybe starting with enabling work before platform work. I've seen examples where they actually realized the value that we can provide to customers is around the enabling sort of aspects and the consulting and helping customers learn about this stuff versus the actual product. It's not a straightforward to measure team cognitive load what should be visible is when you actually have platforms and you have the enabling teams that you need doing the work in with the customers with the other teams in mind those teams should see improvements, Jokely said.

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