Embracing Nonconformity in Japanese Subcultures

In this episode, Simone and I delve into a fascinating conversation about various subcultures that have emerged in response to modern societal challenges. We focus on the Yankees of Japan, the Dinos of the UK, and the Tradies of Australia, exploring how these distinctly different yet surprisingly similar groups share common traits like high fertility rates, rebelliousness, and a mistrust of mainstream societal institutions. Join us as we unpack how these subcultures thrive outside the urban monoculture and what it means for the future of society. Plus, stay tuned for insights into our latest projects and how you can get involved.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be discussing a phenomenon where a certain convergently evolved cultural subgroup that is derivative often of American cultural subgroups in popular with the lower classes within a number of countries is. Staying or becoming one of the core high fertility communities,

Simone Collins: it shall inherit the future.

Malcolm Collins: Exactly. And the first of these is going to be the Yankees of Japan. Yes. If you, I, I'll put a clip of one here

つ つけ ばん じゃん ま まゆげ

つば は

いた

Malcolm Collins: I want daughters who act like that, by the way. That is, that is my plan is a hundred percent. But it's a culture that if you watch anime, you're [00:01:00] likely familiar with, in which people sort of dress like greasers. And they form gangs.

Greasers being the 1950s American subculture. And they focus on a lot of Americana. This. And then the,

Simone Collins: so not, not exactly. So yeah. Yankee culture is, is more just kind of like this. Yes. There's, there's the greaser hairstyle in many cases, like perms and little buffon and stuff. But there is just general, like as, as younger kids, they were hooligans, they had bike gangs.

They caused destruction to property. But the movement now has evolved into what is referred to as mild Yankees, which are basically the grownup version of these people, and they've kind of switched out their. Souped up biker game bikes for God, what are they called? These weird looking Toyota cars that they spend way too much money on the, the Toyota LL Fire.

It's like this really boxy van. Just look it up. It's, it's a thing. [00:02:00] And they're actually now known for being like fairly responsible, but they still kind of maintained a little bit of that rebellious streak. So basically what

Malcolm Collins: happened, and we're gonna go into a tweet that I think gives it into this really well, is they picked up this greaser rebellious, for rebellious sake culture that ended up being very similar to sort of redneck culture in the United States Truck Nut conservatives in the United States that we pointed out.

This is a uniquely resistant to fertility collapse group and being reactively. Anti-authority and anti trend following. Yeah. Like mainstream trends mm-hmm. Is in the US and for obvious reasons, protective of fertility rates. Yeah. And it has acted protectively for this subculture and other subcultures as they've aged out of their pointless, rebellious phases.

Simone Collins: Well, but I think what's really interesting about this group and also the other groups that we're going to explore in the United States, Australia, the uk, that bear a lot of similarities is. It. This rebelliousness also is correlated [00:03:00] with, or just exists alongside a fundamental mistrust in like mainstream societal institutions being plugged into mainstream news and also believing in things like the lifelong corporate job and going to university.

So these groups also tend to either. Not even finish high school, but at at least definitely at very low rates go to university, so they're not getting higher education. And the, the, the man who actually coined the term mild Yankee, his name is Ada Yohe, he wrote this book called Yankee Economics, the New Conservatives as the Leaders of Consumption.

He, he described them as the last Japanese generation to have parents who enjoyed permanent regular. Employment in a normal way. And that actually as they aged, their rebelliousness eased up a little bit because fewer and fewer of their parents had jobs and incomes that sort of allowed them to like wield social control that they might even like buck up against.

So I think that also this generation. [00:04:00] More at the lower ends of the economic spectrum to begin with. Also was the first to see the crumbling of the lifelong corporate job, which was a really big thing in Japan, but certainly a big thing everywhere else too. So they also like, I think, are among the first cultures to start going off the grid.

And by going off the grid, I mean not buying in to something that has turned out to be a fundamental lie. And that buying into also correlates with low. Fertility in that, the, the, the lifelong corporate job or buying into that kind of fantasy of like, I'm gonna make a lot of money. I'm gonna go to university, is the IQ shredder.

It is the moving to the cities, it is the going to university and getting the demanding job and not having time to live close to your family network and raise kids and just spend time with friends and, and, and live within your means and. This group is sort of naturally high fertility because these are the ones who aren't entering the

Malcolm Collins: fertility shredder.

Does that make sense? Well, they're also not as economically disadvantaged [00:05:00] as you would imagine, given their life choices. Yeah. At the same time, they decided to get outta the university pipeline focused on the trades. Mm-hmm. In Japan especially, those types of jobs were increasing in value or, or what they paid Yeah.

Relative to the types of lifelong corporate jobs that were really sort of breaking apart.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and what's interesting is, is some people have posited about softie, Yankee Keys in Japan that, oh, they're gonna disappear. They're not gonna last for long 'cause they're not very educated and you know, they, they won't be able to afford houses.

They will totally be able to afford houses. There are these like emptying out towns in Japan. Where they can buy houses, although they're typically stick sticking close to home and living within their means and using family for support and childcare. So, no, these, these people will be just fine.

Malcolm Collins: So to go into the original tweet thread that brought our attention to this, it said Miles Yankees are the winners of Japanese society.

Skip high school and uni several years, headstart and earn way more than a graduate in their twenties. Marry a guru. Buy a new house, [00:06:00] have kids. This is the way, and then it has some images of, of this culture. And we should put some images on screen of like what this culture looks like. It says in, they tend to stay within a 10 kilometer radius of their hometown.

So they keep strong family, friendship, bonds, making it easier to start a family. And it shows you know, a, a meme of them grilling with, with hamburgers, hot wives. The mild Yankee statue with their van. The boy was the soft mohawk bar barbecue on the holidays. My eldest daughter is learning to dance, beautiful wife.

And they have, well,

Simone Collins: I, I think it's not a van. I, I think, again, it's a Toyota Vall fire. And I, I want to understand the obsession with this vehicle that is so strange.

Malcolm Collins: And there's another thing here where it's, it's mild Yankee where it's a, a guy and his girlfriend and they have a baby. And it says, but and he says.

This is, this messed up delicious. That's really bad. This eat it if you like. And she's giving an [00:07:00] old lady's, giving her like food. And of course in Japan this would happen if you moved to a town and had kids.

Simone Collins: Well, basically it's, it's a cartoon showing a husband enjoying his wife's food, a wife accepting local produce from a family member or neighbor.

And then the, the family and their kids expressing thanks to that local community member like this is. The archetype of sustainable family rearing, living in a supportive community, showing them gratitude. The young and old and and working age all have a role and they enjoy small and simple things.

And that's the thing about this, I.

Malcolm Collins: Well, it's about building an alternate culture where the dominance hierarchy is not, and people don't like that. I use the term dominant hierarchy. They're like, call it the prestige hierarchy. I use dominant hierarchy because I'm comparing it in an anthropological context.

To like an APE tribe or something like that is not the unified, the dominance hierarchy. The problem, one of the biggest problems with the urban monoculture is that everyone's playing was in the same dominance hierarchy. So you're always going to feel near [00:08:00] the bottom unless you happen to be like famous or something.

Where it was in both the Yankee and the mild Yankee dominance hierarchies you can for a much lower cost and much lower investment, really invest in that culture and be like your own person that you can have pride in.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And then a tweet under it, oh. Actually before I go to the tweet under it, do you want me to read about the evolution of Yankee culture?

Simone Collins: In Japan?

Malcolm Collins: Yes, I I will. Okay, so the term Yankee in Japan doesn't refer to the American baseball team or the historical US group, but rather to a distinct subculture that emerged in the late 20th century. Japanese Yankees are typically associated with rebellious youth, often characterized by a distinctive style, think pompadour hairstyles, modified school uniforms, and a tough anti-establishment attitude.

This subculture has roots in the post-war period. Influenced by American pop culture, like rock and roll and biker kings, but it evolved into something uniquely Japanese. Over [00:09:00] time, it's been linked to working class communities, particularly in urban and semi-urban settings like South Osaka and parts of Kishu.

It is associated, is it associated with higher fertility rates? There's no hard data from official sources like Japan's Ministry of Health or Academic Studies, specifically telling Yankee subculture to higher birth rates. However, some observations and sentiment on platforms like X hint at a connection, for instance, it's been con suggested in areas where Yankee culture is strong, like South Osaka or tissue families tend to have more kids, two to three compared to Japan's national average total fertility rate, which dropped from 1.2 in 2023.

Okinawa with a TFR of 1.6 and parts of Kishu, like Miyazaki, 1.49 do stand out as having higher fertility rates than say, Tokyo 0.99. These regions also have a reputation as being more relaxed, community oriented lifestyles, which some associate with lingering Yankee influence. The theory might go like this.

[00:10:00] Yankees, historically from working class backgrounds may have prioritized family and traditional roles over career driven urban lifestyles that dominate cities like Tokyo, where fertility rates are lowest. Their mild, modern counterparts could still carry a countercultural tendency. Turds earlier, marriage and large families, bunking, Japan's broader trend of delayed and foregone parenthood, for example, chu's, relatively high fertility rates around 1.8 in some areas, and its reputation as a Yankee stronghold could suggest that correlation.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. So I, one, one thing that I was looking at today was the connection between Yankee culture and. Another high fertility culture, which is the Appalachian culture, which we constantly talk about. And in that Twitter thread, they don't even mention Appalachian culture, but two separate people are like, oh my gosh, you're just describing the, the UK phenomenon of, and we're gonna

Malcolm Collins: go over these two other phenomenon.

And then, oh,

Simone Collins: you're just describing Aussie tradies. But I wanna talk about the similarities between. Yankee culture [00:11:00] and Appalachian culture. And the, the reason why is there's this movie that I love that you will never, ever watch 'cause it's basically the Japanese amali called Kamikaze girls that I.

I have probably spent like hundreds of hours watching again and again, like before I met you. 'cause I love it so much. It's about two girls. One is this girl who's really into gothic, Lili clothing named Momoko. And a friend she makes named Ichigo. And Ichigo is a Yankee. She's a, she's a Yankee girl. And like when I rewatch the scene where she's introduced, I'm just like, oh my gosh.

There's, she is like the Japanese. Like Appalachian Tom girl, because she shows up on what is basically a rideable truck nut. It's like this insane, like souped up scooter motorcycle thing. And 'cause she's the member of this, this, this Japanese biker game called the Ponytails, and she's actually showing up at this young girl's house because her father sells.

Bootlegged Versace like super trashy [00:12:00] clothing and like as she's like looking at the clothing that's available for sale later in the scene, she's like, oh my gosh, you universal Versace. 'cause he'll just like starts combining logos. It's like just totally trashy taste. But like, fantastic. And as she's approaching Momoko, Momoko is like thinking like, oh, a Yankee to run on eyebrows, and she spits on the ground and she, she has like very male mannerisms and it's just like, whoa.

Okay. So we got the tomboy, we got the truck nuts, we've got like the toughness. And this sort of like un unabashed enthusiasm for things and, and lack of concern for what other people think. And I. Absolutely love it. And I never watched that movie thinking like, huh, this is a lot like another type of American culture, but it totally is, and it makes so much sense to me that this would evolve into one of the high fertility Japanese cultures that I'm thrilled about it

Malcolm Collins: if I can get away with posting this culture this, this video, because it's part of a music video that it's from the, the country [00:13:00] song when it rains.

And I think that many people, when they think of American. Country music or they, they think of this like uniform, sort of Republican American cultural group. And I keep pointing out that no, the Appalachian cultural group is very distinct from the aristocratic southern group or the aristocratic and, and very religious southern group.

And, and proper and the Mormon group. And I think that the intro to this video does a very good job because you see this family coming out. Going to church and you assume if you are approaching country music with stereotypes that they are the protagonist and No, it's not. It's not them. It's the guy who fell asleep partying on his, his roof.

And he is just, you know, was, was having a fun time. And you could tell that this individual would be very aligned with this cultural group. 100%.

Everybody got their Bibles? Yes.

[00:14:00] Come on, we gotta go.

Malcolm Collins: You watch like a video of the, the girl in it who is being a very, like, at, at her lunch with the other girl. And she's showing a lot of manners that remind me a lot of our daughter.

But No kidding. Yeah. If it

Simone Collins: was like if, if that scene was our family, it would be me dressed like the frilly girl and it would be our daughter Titan sitting across from me 100%.

ヨハンシュ と ラウス 知らねえ なあん な バンド

Simone Collins: But also like another thing it's demonstrated in that scene you're referring to is like this distinct. Lack of education.

Like I think she's listening to some classical artist and ichi goes' like, never heard of that band. Like, just

Malcolm Collins: no. But, but you see here that this is also something you see with this Appalachian group [00:15:00] culture. When you see them stereotyped, they're always stereotyped as the women particularly is being uniquely tomboy-ish.

Just think of like apple jack for my little pony. He's like, hardworking and, and, and tomboy-ish. Or you could think of. Well, any girl from you know, I'm trying to think of good stereotypes. Oh, yes, I'm a redneck woman. Or the,

Simone Collins: the girl

Malcolm Collins: I didn't, no high class man.

Simone Collins: The Beverly Hillbillies, I think she's great.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yes. The Beverly Hillbillies where she's incredibly strong.

Nobody treats my paw that way. Shut up.

How's that for Bunny?

Malcolm Collins: I think she better,

Simone Collins: Is, is like the guru archetype. So the. What Roco on Twitter said when talking about this movement wasn't implying that like Yankees, Murray Yankees, and definitely like female Yankees as depicted by Ichigo and kamikaze girls is less common.

You're more likely to get like the [00:16:00] girly girl version of that subculture, which is yoru. They're. Like, way back in the day, the way that you knew you were looking at a garter was basically if you saw like a Japanese stereotype of like Malibu Barbie, so bleached blonde hair, super tanned and then extremely girly pink accessories.

That's how you know you're looking at a garter. They look overly tan and they're like, yeah, now, now they're, now they're just toned down. Now they just look like the Japanese equivalent of trailer trash. Like they're, they're attractive, they're sexy. They, they like dress in a sort of like sexy, attractive way, and I think social media has kind of had that effect where it's like toned everyone down a little bit and also taught everyone how to style themselves.

Yeah. I, I think both in like a more classy and more trashy way, right? Because everyone has everyone has adopted drag makeup online, like everyone's contouring now. And yet like we're trying to like. Even it out, there's tempering taking place.

Malcolm Collins: I sent you a like super wholesome hentai of of shoot one of these girls.

So you can see that this [00:17:00] is a popular enough archetype. Leave it to us to describe hentai as wholesome though. Well, this one is clearly just made for like, look, you can masturbate different parts of your brain. And one thing that people like to masturbate is the wholesome part. Like, yeah, like a fantasy

Simone Collins: about like a loving, wholesome marriage.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. A wife, a loving, wholesome who actually loves you and cares. You can imagine yeah, like the, the gist is basically a childhood friend who doesn't feel like she's done anything with her life is really just completely plused and over the moon, and she's become a guro or like a mild guro, I guess you'd say.

Was like big. Pink animal print, like broth, like out, like small top things. Malibu

Simone Collins: Barbie Trailer Crash Edition.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Yeah. And, and you, you, and she's like sad about her life and she's really excited that somebody loves her and cares for horror. And that's a, the gist of it. But it's, it's, it's common enough that even when these characters are used in Japanese pornography, like Hint, I, [00:18:00] they are used as like a.

I'm gonna be a sweet, good, and loving wife who's gonna give you lots of babies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very much the, the what you can tell is like the fantasy that's represented here and it's interesting that it transitioned from delinquent to, I am going to be delinquent. By being a sweet wife, but not in a traditional Japanese way, which is like, I guess like out of subservience or something like that.

Mm-hmm. But just because I appreciate you so much you know, and I think that a lot of guys in Japan may feel that way and they may look at a girl like that and see her as more attainable. Mm. Which was what would create this like, genre of hint. I,

Simone Collins: yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's just also such a contrast to.

I, I watch a lot of, I guess you could call them ambiance videos on YouTube made by single women who live in tiny little apartments in Tokyo and have [00:19:00] salary woman jobs. And in these videos they're just like silent. They never show their faces and they just do their evening routines. They make dinner for themselves.

And it's just such this weird contrast between this like completely asexual, highly educated professional woman. Mm-hmm. And I'm sure that their male equivalents are doing the same thing. And then this, this, this family, you know, these people who actually wanna have kids young, and this is what we have.

Like this is, this is what. Post globalization, post tech, high fertility culture looks like, it looks like people who marry their high school sweethearts or who marry during university and start having kids in their twenties and have a support system. I mean, it doesn't have to be, as in is the case with the the soft Yankees family members and they don't have to stay within 10 kilometers of where they were born, but

Malcolm Collins: it

Simone Collins: helps.

Malcolm Collins: So am I free to move on to the next cultural group?

Simone Collins: Ooh, which one are we gonna do? Are we gonna do a tradies?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, we're gonna continue with this. It goes, this is wild. There's the exact same [00:20:00] archetype with differences in execution, obviously in the UK called the Dino. A lower middle class types extremely misunderstood.

The commonality they have is their positive outlook. They need few things to make them happy, laugh easily, et cetera. Hmm. So let's talk about the Dino group. All right.

Dino isn't an organized group or a former subculture in the uk, but rather a satirical stereotype that's emerged online, particularly on platforms like Twitter now x and four chan to describe a specific type of person or lifestyle. Mm-hmm. The term paints the picture of a lower middle class. Often suburban or small town British couple, typically in their twenties or thirties, who embody a mix of aspirational consumerism and what some see as tacky mainstream tastes.

Think of this as a modern evolution of the older British stereotypes of the Essex man, or Mondio man, but with Asian. What about the ch, like are they just totally

Simone Collins: different?

Malcolm Collins: What

Simone Collins: are they different from the, are they Chas shaves? I don't know how they're, yes. Totally different from Chaves. Oh, okay. [00:21:00] Although, to to point back to like kamikaze girls, like this obsession with like Versace knockoff stuff.

I think that's the thing is like lower middle class, like thinking for example, that designer brands are Well pride in

Malcolm Collins: being lower middle class. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unapologetically. Yeah. Dino is usually imagined as a guy named Dean, hence the name. Working a decent but unglamorous job.

Say a call center supervisor, estate agent, trades person. He lives in a new building, housing estate, often called Barat Britain. After a major UK developer drives a finance car like a Voxel Astra and enjoys lad. Hobbies, FIFA Love Island Package. Holidays. Oh boy, Marbella. Yes. And nights out whiz banter. Yes.

His partner is sometimes jokingly called Miss Fiat. 500 matches him with white and TEEP lift, fillers and wardrobe of fast fashion.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: their home might feature gray [00:22:00] carpets. A ology, sofa, and an AstroTurf garden all proudly shared on Instagram. Mm-hmm. The stereotype leans hard into their perceived obsession with appearances and status, despite their relatively modest means.

The Dino meme started as a piss take on four chan and spread through British Twitter. Where it's been dissected was both. Humor and disdain. Some see Dinos as happy and fulfilled in their straightforward lives. Owning a home, having mates and enjoying the odd pint while others mock them as shallow conformist or oblivious to their precarious financial situation.

Big mortgages, little savings posts on X often highlight their aesthetics, slicked back hair, half shirt buttons undone, and blonde hair dye, and eating disorder. For the women, it's less about real subculture and more about a caricature of the normal Britain. British outside the urban elite. Oh, screw them.

I'm here for it. I'm here for it. Sign me up. And, but I, I think it is, it's, it's people who are proud to be themselves Yeah. Outside of this other [00:23:00] culture, which is what's necessary to fight against this. Yeah. A pride in being something other than the other urban monoculture. Yeah. And in immunity to urban monocultural, ridicule of you, whatever that culture looks like.

Well, there's

Simone Collins: some tension there. Because there's absolutely keeping up with Joneses, taking place with the financed vehicle, the, the house with everything posted on Instagram, the lip filler, the blonde hair, the, the whitened teeth, the eating disorder. You know, I think that there among their internal there is keeping up with the Joneses.

It just happens to be that the Joneses aren't like this distributed international group. It's like literally the people who live next door to you, just like it was in the fifties and sixties. But there, there is still, there's, there's sensitivity, but also like, yeah, but it's,

Malcolm Collins: it is, it is more financially realistic keeping up with the Joneses because you're playing a different game than the urban monoculture game.

Yeah. This is like what they're saying. They're like, they're so surprised that these people seem proud of things that aren't of status within the urban monoculture. Like why do they have pride in these modest meme things? And it's because they're playing a different [00:24:00] dominance hierarchy than you're playing with it.

Yeah. But anyway. Goes on and tweets to say, I have a lot of friends like this. All they do is drink and party all day, but they go overseas every year. And here I am working overtime at the office as a humble salary man. Maybe I should have taken the and I think it's something in Japanese pill after all.

Hmm.

Simone Collins: The,

Malcolm Collins: and then it says, under the shortage of blue collar workers is so extreme that wage wise, you can earn much more than the average salary, man. The flip side, as your body will be broken by your fifties, and you'll probably die of lung cancer early. And then the next says they can live least decent lives if their father refrained himself from spending his whole savings on verifier or if they're becoming too pachinko addicted.

And then a person says, today I learned mild Yankees are just like Ozzy tradies

Simone Collins: Ozzy, and like Pachinko addiction is, is no different from problems with sports gambling in the us. Like there's so many similarities here.

Malcolm Collins: But yeah we can, we can go here to this next culture, the [00:25:00] tradies in Australia.

Do you wanna learn about them? Yeah, I wanna learn about the

Simone Collins: tradies. Absolutely.

Malcolm Collins: In Australia, tradees is a widely used sling for a term, short for tradespeople or tradesmen. Air Force to skilled manual workers who specialize in a particular trade such as carpentry, plumbing, electrical work, bricking or mechanics, and you can tell that they would fall into this category.

These other people who were talking about, these folks typically are hands-on professionals who've completed apprenticeships or vocational training. To master their craft. They're the ones building houses, fixing pipes, wiring homes, and keeping cars running, essentially keeping the country running the terms got cultural Weight down under tradies are often seen as embodying a rugged, practical, no-nonsense Aussie spirit.

Think high V vest. Steel capped boots and a Ute utility vehicle loaded with tools. They're a big part of the economy too, especially in construction, which is a powerhouse industry in Australia. Posts on X and web chatters sometimes paint them as a hardworking blokes and increasingly women who enjoy a beer after a long day.

I. That's more of a stereotype than a rule. Unlike the UK's [00:26:00] Dino stereotype, which is more about a lifestyle or a class jab, tradies are defined by their skills and jobs. They're not a subculture in the rebellious sense like Japan's Yankees, but they do have their own lingo and camaraderie. Think smoko break time are hard, jaka, tough work.

Some tradies earn solid money, 75 to 90 5K on average, but they're specialized or run their own gig. Though it varies by trade and experience.

So, yeah. Apparently a lot of cultures are seeing this in a different regions or something that they see as similar. Was the core difference being a different life path? And, and different dominant hierarchy and different things that they value. Hmm. And then this person here did a podcast on it.

They say this is a fascinating generated, a whole AI podcast about the subject. Somebody did, but they did a picture, which I thought is really nice looking of this. And then somebody here also said there's also the [00:27:00] work and izakaya and then open a kitchen car pipeline allows lots of time for surfing, et cetera.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And an izakay restaurant is basically Japanese top bus. So I could, I could see someone like having maybe a popup restaurant and. Using that to create a sort of flexible lifestyle. And then somebody

Malcolm Collins: here says, so only the malcontents of Japan are also the only people who thrive. The only people who couldn't fit in in a brutally conformist country are also the only ones to find happiness.

The only winners of Japanese society are the people with a good sense to stay out.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: What were you gonna say? Sorry, I interrupted you there.

Simone Collins: No, go. Go ahead.

I mean, so, okay. I'll just jump in then and say one thing that gives me a lot of hope about these subcultures is that, one, they may be underrepresented as inheritors of the future because they've chosen so much to opt out of the internet to opt out of. Mainstream culture and to be pretty hard to measure.

[00:28:00] So I was, I was reading some news stories on this group and they're like, well, people are trying to like find them, but you can't really find 'em in online surveys. You, most of the interviews that people are doing on people on the streets are in places like Tokyo, like in really high traffic neighborhoods.

So they're not finding them because these people, even when they vacation, they typically vacation close to home. So my understanding is that basically they are. Off the grid to a great extent. And when you and I were looking at data of groups that seemed to be high fertility in the United States, we kept seeing, yes, high levels of religiosity, but also xenophobia and extreme sensitive sensitivity to hierarchy and sort of like a lot of, a lot of scary fascist, but not in a good way, in a sort of closed-minded, scary way.

Tendencies. My impression is that these groups. Are not as much like that. They might be somewhat suspicious of outsiders. I get that. But I'm, I'm less concerned about groups like this inheriting the future [00:29:00] because they're community minded. They sound pretty pro-social. At, at least since they've sort of evolved out of their hard Yankee days where they used to actually cause a lot of property damage and be kind of troublesome people in their communities now they're, they're seen as being much more responsible community members.

So they're, they seem to be broadly pro-social. They care about kids, they care about family. They're grateful for the community help they get. This doesn't seem like a bad group to be inheriting the future. It

Malcolm Collins: seems like living for a delinquent aesthetic. Mm-hmm. Where that is also high fertility and that's one of a way of thumbing your nose at society is high fertility.

And another thing that's high fertility is I. Being both frugal but not good with financial decisions. That's another thing that seems to be high fertility, is that they don't fold. They're just like, okay, I'm gonna keep having kids and it's gonna work out. I think people who are overly concerned about being able to afford things, like the people who are like, well, don't they know this?

Yes. How, how precarious their life is. People who think like that never end up [00:30:00] having kids.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like they, well, they, they both are happy living within their means, but they seem to. For cultural or perhaps lack of education reasons or both blow the money that they do have on things that they don't necessarily need, like cosmetic surgery and cars and maybe sports gambling or pachinko.

And that's maybe, I mean, we, we see it as not great, but at the same time. The lack of savings and also that lack of concern, oh, I can't afford this so I'm not gonna do it. Yeah. Does seem to be really, it forces people to lean in more to family, more to community. And I do think there's a synergistic effect there where the more you lean into family and community, the more you're likely to have kids and also support your family and community.

You know, the more everyone needs each other, the more they help each other and the more they lean into that again. And so it would only create more children, more loving communities, and. We kind of need that.

Malcolm Collins: So [00:31:00] Ro Alright, well, Simone, this has been a fun conversation. I hope our daughters grow up to be as fierce as, as that Yankee girl who you liked growing up sitting.

What did you think of her character growing up? Did you like, like her? Did you identify more as the other girl?

Simone Collins: No, definitely identify with Momoko the. Sweet LTA girl who's obsessed with friley dresses. Some of the, I was watching other scenes from the movie today and. I realized, like, and in one scene she's wearing a, a dress that looks so much like what I wear every day.

It like she's a white bonnet and a black jumper does a white pet coat. And I'm like,

Malcolm Collins: is like,

Simone Collins: actually your thing is.

Malcolm Collins: Is this Puritan Lolita? What have I done? Well, no, that's what I like when we go to conferences and she dresses up in her traditional outfits. The people who like come up and gush over them are often the goth, like sunken goth girls.

Yeah. They're like, oh, that's so cool. You look crazy. Like, I [00:32:00] love it. And it's so fun that you can be so trad that like the, the goth it's, it's the horseshoe theory. Yeah. Just like you have

Simone Collins: the, you know, the crunchy to All right. Horseshoe where, you know, they, they end up being connected in the end.

It's. It's great. I

Malcolm Collins: love it. But wait, so you basically now as a grownup have a daughter who's like the punk girl who's like moko

Simone Collins: and, you know, sorry, I'm like Momoko and I have a daughter like Ichigo. Yeah, 100%.

Malcolm Collins: Did you, did you expect that? We'll, we'll see if she keeps it up as she gets older, but right now, oh my God, she loves trolling.

Like such a troll. She's such a troll. She will, like, even with her siblings, it's not just us. It's like Octavia will be like, please don't. Touch my, my Google device while I'm gone and then she'll be like as soon as he leaves, she has no interest in it. Yeah, she wants, she's no play with it. Dexter

Simone Collins: slab or something.

100%. She lives to troll and I love it. I respected. I didn't know that that was a real genetic compulsion. Trolling. Yeah, troll trolling, heritable. [00:33:00] Someone can make polygenic score around that with enough data. Is is she gonna

Malcolm Collins: be didi? To, to torso's. Mad scientist. The short little brother who's shorter than her and really smart.

What does this do?

Malcolm Collins: And they're the

Simone Collins: same size now pretty much. He has bigger feet than her. Thank goodness. He's, he's growing something. I'm, I'm gonna get that kid to grow. We're gonna, we have ways.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Yes. All right. I love you n DeSimone. It's been a joy talking with you. And we just submitted our Andreessen Horowitz applications with, to the Collins Institute and the the video game that we've been working on, so we'll, we see if they're interested in, if you're

Simone Collins: buddies with them, put in a good word for old, for

Malcolm Collins: old Collins.

Yes. Or. If you know another VC we should be looking at or talking [00:34:00] to who's interested in AI games or AI education, let us know because warm intros apparently matter. And what's the point of having fans if we can't get warm intros?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Actually social badging is everything, and these are big projects that we really believe in, but I yeah.

We'll see.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, we should, we should put the pitch decks here so people can be like, oh, this is what you're working on. Oh, that

Simone Collins: would be cool. Yeah. If you want to learn more about these projects, see the pitch decks below, and if you have ideas for us, please share, because actually our listeners are super smart, incredible people with some, yeah.

Okay. Not all of you. All right. What, which one are you listener, are you, are you mid or are you.

Malcolm Collins: Based, are you? Yeah. Are you smart enough to, to have been a Yankee who have known to be a delinquent from the beginning? I was definitely a delinquent growing up. So you married the, the grownup delinquents?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Well,

Simone Collins: I mean the, [00:35:00] another one of the themes that I really like from this is, is a lot of people identifying, or at least referring to them as misfits. You know, like it's the misfits in the end who, who get to inherit the future. And that's totally it. It's the people as you keep pointing out who deviate.

Malcolm Collins: A mainstream society.

It's not the, that their misfits is that they don't care about the fact that they're perceived as misfits.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: It is the not caring about other people's judgment of you as a misfit.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Anyway, and that's what you gotta raise your kids to, to think like, and it's, it's, it's a big so many people, I think that this is, is going to be one of the biggest things that Mormonism is going to struggle getting around.

It is a fear of being seen as misfit or others, which is one of the reasons their particular fertility collapse. Even though it's not as bad as other denominations like Catholicism may be more intractable because I think that many castle groups are okay with looking weird. Whereas I don't know many warman groups that really embrace the idea of being weird.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. [00:36:00] Hundred percent. No, that's a big

Malcolm Collins: problem. Alright, goodbye.

Simone Collins: Bye. I love you. Goodbye. I said good day, sir. Good day.

The aesthetics, the, the subjects. I absolutely adore it. It has just all these like tiny little aesthetic moments and references and. The main character has sensitivities to stupid little things that I really identify with. But it's definitely, it's like even down to lighting choices made, it is clearly the Amelie of Japan and you will never watch it, and you will never like it, and that's okay.

It's totally okay.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, that was a common thing in Japan to pair characters. You have those two. Acts the contrast.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You, you had it with Puffy Ami Yumi, for example. Mm-hmm. The cartoon about the Yeah. The popular band. Yeah. The Tom

Simone Collins: girl and the g the girly girl,

Malcolm Collins: Tom girl and the girly girl.

Everybody wants to hang with Tom girl and the girly girl. You

Simone Collins: know

Malcolm Collins: it. Watch them fight each other. Oh, that's so silly. So silly. [00:37:00] Silly.

They're beautiful. Shall we pick some. I flowers. You wanna pick the flowers too? They have baby flowers. Baby flowers? Mm-hmm. All right, well, do you see any? Doesn't walk them. You swamp me. Okay. If you can stay out of the mud, you can pick some, they're called swamp marigolds. Go get some.