Debate on the Necessity of Religious Revival in America

I agree with that. So I would say that's total long-term savings. ICE is fine. I mean, we can talk about the different ways you can save for retirement. And I think a pension is a really effective way to do it because of the tax breaks. And I mean, it's a double-edged sword, but the fact that the money is locked away, right? So it doesn't get used for something else. Now, that can be problematic at times if you hit a financial crisis and you need money and it's in your pension and you can't get at it. And I think particularly if you're self-employed, that's, I mean, we'll talk about self-employed and what's happened to retirement savings there. But I think that's one of the reasons why self-employed saving has collapsed in the last 10, 20 years. So the value of it being at a pension is the money is locked away, but the drawback is the money is locked away. In answer to your question, yeah, fine, if you want to use ISAs as part of your long-term retirement savings strategy, and there are good reasons to do that, ISAs are super flexible, the money you take out is just tax-free, there's no tax problems with taking the money out of an ISA further down the line, or indeed a lifetime ISA, so that's an advantage, and there are reasons, so you might want to do that maybe alongside a pension, you might want to invest in property, there's lots of other things you can do. You might build up a business and say, that's my retirement savings plan. So I don't think it just has to be a pension. But whatever you do, you need to be doing something. And I think those numbers we talked about, look at that as what your overall retirement savings strategy should look like.

Debate: Do We Need a Religious Revival?

Honestly with Bari Weiss

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