Is There an Institutional Force That Can Get Away With It?

"This is big time stuff. And a lot of people are going to get hurt if they don't listen," he says. "Most of ESG is just completely nonsense and this craft and doesn't work." The real opportunity with what's going on in environmental legislation and climate change legislation is specific to environmental commodities, which we've traded those types of assets for 13 years. But while there are ETFs for these instruments, we prefer the futures contracts.