And

at some point, your brother, David, came to join you at Gallup Capital. How would you say that partnership has shaped the firm?

Well, the partnership has helped the firm really take advantage of all of its opportunities. So I started the firm in 1994. And David joined in about 2004, 2003, 2004. Now, he and I are very close. He had been a close advisor of mine throughout building the firm. And in the period from about 1994 to 2001, we were really not the most successful business. We had good IRRs, good returns for investors. But a lot of what we were doing were really tiny private equity investments. We were doing structured finance and mezzanine debt. But we didn't start to hit our groove as a business till about 2001 after the internet telecom bust. And we went full bore at that time into sponsor finance. As we were growing, Greg Cashman and Andy Stoyerman were two key senior partners of the firm. They're both senior partners of the firm today. And so it was me, Andy Storjman, and Greg Cashman as the senior leadership team. David at this time was working at Center Partners, a private equity firm, and he was getting very involved in leverage finance from a different side, from the CLO, broadly syndicated loan side of the business. And he decided to make a change. He had been helping us invent taking CLO technology, securitization finance as a way to borrow on a very long-term safe basis, very inexpensive debt as we were starting to move into senior debt. And during 2004, David joined the firm full time. And it's really a tribute to David and Andy Storyman and Greg Cashman that he came in to a position of an existing partnership as my brother. And all four of us were able to make that work and get along. I think Andy Storyman has a particular interpersonal genius. And I remember one year we're going over a year-end review and I asked him a question along the lines of, all right, well, what do you want to accomplish next year? And Andy said, I'd like to be the third brother. And over time, I consider Andy and Greg both business brothers. It's been the four of us. And as it relates to David and my relationship, I think one of the keys to our business success has been unlimited trust, unlimited respect and intelligence, and a willingness to, most of the time, do a good job of dividing and conquering. having grown up getting into a fight every day and learning how to make up every day. We fight. We fight plenty. We know how to make up.

That's great.