In 1999, he had just gotten married and had a really dead end day job. He enrolled himself into an extension campus, it's like a college campus. It was something that he could do after work. And sure enough, toward the end of actually right as I was kind of getting in the midst of my education, a really great, a really big project landed on his lap at work. So all that to say, long story short, if you're hungry enough, you can do this. You know, school is wonderful, but you don't even have to go to school. You can, there's so much resource online and through people who are willing, just like what you